What’s your policy on knives lost by USPS, UPS, etc?

G

godogs57

Joined
Apr 16, 2004
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Been seeing threads elsewhere regarding delivery failures by the big three recently. From past experience I know USPS insurance is a scam, which infuriates me.

For the first time in forever, I had a delivery allegedly stolen by a USPS employee before it reached its destination. The employee was fired. There was video at the post office that positively identified my package arriving at the facility in the purchaser's town. I had no idea the PO videos incoming boxes…learned something new.

Long story short, I mailed the package, he failed to receive my knives. Personally, I feel it’s my obligation to ensure my knife is placed in his hand so to speak. Following that, I’ve fulfilled my end of the deal. I’m replacing both knives he ordered. I feel I should do that, and wondered how other makers feel about this issue.
 
Shipments <$500 I don't insure unless requested. If the shipment is lost - I refund.

Shipments >$500 I ask the buyer/trader if they would like insurance. If they say yes - I insure and if they say no - the responsibility is on them after I hand over to the PO and I provide tracking info to the buyer/trader.
 
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My policy is I try to minimize the impact to my customer in every way. Luckily, it’s been infrequent enough to not sweat it too much but certainly is a numbers game. This REALLY trips me out when I’m working with sentimental items. Impossible to fix sometimes, insurance be damned.

Speaking of insurance, some people really like it…to me “betting” $10 to cover a loss of $500 means I think there’s a greater than 2% chance that they will lose my package. That seems like really bad odds for the buyer.
 
The PO will pay the insurance, you just have to jump through the hoops. First of which they will deny your claim. Then you appeal and they will pay the appeal. We had one where we included the Postal Inspector's report and they still denied it.
 
You have to decide for yourself and either accept the carrier's insurance (or add that to the customer cost) and deal with the hassle of the claims department at the carrier (their job is to do everything they can to deny your claim on various technicalities).

Your other option is to "Self Insure" so that means you accept the risk of no insurance and pay out of your pocket.

You could probably also get a rider for loss from your insurance agent but the cost might not be acceptable.
 
You can do third-party insurance that is often cheaper and more reasonable that the USPS insurance as well. I use PirateShip and insure anything I sell.

Several gunsmiths and knifemakers I know have a business insurance policy that covers loss or damage in shipping, that may also be worthwhile if you do high volume or high value items.
 
Agreed the USPS insurance is a real hassle - too many things are required to "prove" the item was worth the value of insurance. I use PirateShip also, but hadn't really looked at their insurance thinking it was just USPS insurance (or UPS). Have you had a reason to file a claim with PirateShip? If so, how did it go?
 
Ken H> said:
Agreed the USPS insurance is a real hassle - too many things are required to "prove" the item was worth the value of insurance. I use PirateShip also, but hadn't really looked at their insurance thinking it was just USPS insurance (or UPS). Have you had a reason to file a claim with PirateShip? If so, how did it go?
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Personally, I've never had to file a claim with USPS or with PirateShip. I've been using PirateShip for about three months and before that used USPS with their insurance for nearly 20 years.

However, with PirateShip the process is simpler, and other people indicate that you pretty much just have to have the recipient sign a legal document attesting that he or she never received the item. PirateShip's insurance will cover porch piracy, which is to me important as USPS coverage stops when they mark it delivered (unless you can prove they left it in the wrong place, which is doable but a big hassle).
 
Just re reading my post above. I could have been clearer. We had a Postal Inspector’s report stating that the knives were stolen by a Postal employee. They still denied the claim and then paid it upon appeal
 
Pirate Ship! Insure everything. Pirate Ship allows you to insure without the need for signature confirmation. I can ship a fully insured 1k valued knife anywhere in the US for around $16 with Pirate Ship.
 
PirateShip uses InsureShield. Make sure you read the terms of service if you use it so you are familiar with everything.
 
REK Knives said:
No just wanted to make sure everyone had done it so no surprises. I didn't see anything either though
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Only things I noticed is that corrosion that happens during shipment is not covered and if the item is damaged insurance only pays out 50%.
 
The biggest thing that you need to understand is that you need to have good photos and documents. These may include the following things and others:
A copy of the sales order to your customer clearly stating the price it sold for, and any other fees involved in the sale, like PayPal fees or taxes
A statement from the customer/recipient that it did not arrive
A tracking document or statement from the shipper showing it is lost or undelivered
A good description of the knife and materials, with clear photos of the knife
Copies of the shipping receipts including postage paid and any included insurance
Any other documents related to the shipped item.
 
Seedy Lot said:
Only things I noticed is that corrosion that happens during shipment is not covered and if the item is damaged insurance only pays out 50%.
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No that's only if you improperly insure the item(s). So if you only insure for 50% then you only get 50% of whatever the loss/damage value actually is.

Here is the exact wording in the TOS:

Notice of Co-Insurance Penalty: In the event that you declare a value that is less than the valuation provided for above, you will be compensated for a proportion of your loss based on the value that you declared and not based on any other valuation. For example, if you declared a value of $500 for a shipment of goods with an actual value of $1,000 (i.e., you declare a value for the goods equal to 50% of the actual value of the goods), and if a protected loss or damage event occurred which resulted in a loss with a value of $400, then the Program would only pay 50% of the loss value associated with such loss or damage, or $200.
 
Probably gonna piss some filks off but if you sell something to someone else it us on you to make sure it's delivered.
Get Collectors Insurance, it's reasonable and they pay claim s with out much hassle.
Charging someone else for Insurance for delivery is ludicrous.
 
well, I don't have a 'policy' per se, but it's in everyone's best interests that people get what they pay for. I realize that so much is NOT like that- especially these days- and I think that's why I'm attracted to making things for people. All this meme coin bullshit and gambling with stocks or whatever...not my scene. At all. Ain't no gettin rich makin knives- I derive value from creating something- that people are willing to trade money for my work allows me to keep doing it and get better at it.

The way I see it, organizations and corporations have 'policies'. I only have one policy, and I wouldn't even call it a policy since it's more of an ideological and moral position, and that is to retain the trust of those who support my work.
 
In most instances, the seller is legally obligated to ensure that the buyer receives the item at an agreed upon location. If we agree to ship an item, than the shipping address becomes that agreed upon location, and we are agreeing to that stipulation whether we outright say so or not. Every single digital platform and method of accepting payment will side with the buyer if an item is not delivered, unless the transaction is designated as "friends and family" or whatever their version is. Lot's of makers say that they aren't responsible if an uninsured item gets lost in the mail, but the reality is that legally, they are. The customer can always simply file a chargeback on their payment method for "Item not received", and they'll be refunded and the seller will have the money pulled back. The customer wins that battle 100 percent of the time unless the seller can provide proof of delivery at the accepted address by means of tracking through the shipper. so its best just to refund or send another, because that'll be the end result anyway unless the customer is naive and thinks they cant get a refund. If I ordered and paid for an item, and it never arrived, I would certainly do whatever it took to be made whole. As a seller, if I wasn't willing to build that into my cost of doing business, I just wouldn't ship. All sales would be in person only. That being said, the insurance that the shipping services themselves offer (UPS, FedEx, USPS), are always garbage. If you use a third party shipping software like shipstation or shippingeasy, they provide third party insurance as an option. You choose the dollar amount of the valuation, and they rarely ever offer any argument. They usually just pay out whatever dollar amount that you paid for. Its cheap enough that it isn't worth risking damage to your reputation by saying "Its not my problem that the package didn't arrive". I don't think there is a single one of us who would order something from Amazon, not receive the item, and then just say "Oh well, its not the sellers fault, they tried". I'm not sure why would we insist that we be made whole in that situation, but not offer our customers the same expectation.
 
Short answer, if a customer pays me for a product, I make sure they get what they paid for, or in rare cases, they get their money back.

Maybe I'm lucky, but having shipped 100's and 100's of items through USPS, I can count the number of times I've ever had an issue on one hand, and fortunately, they were relatively low cost items. Most of my items are shipped Priority flat rate, I don't have anything but my personal name on the return address, and no other indications that I'm shipping anything of value, or from a knife and/or tool company. I also make sure to add plenty of tape and, for knives especially, pack the inside of the box such that there's little to no movement.

The only time I add insurance is if there are items that the customer has sent me inside the package, that might be hard or impossible to replace. Otherwise, I suppose I'm taking the gamble. I kind of figure that I'll just pull funds from all that money I save by NOT adding insurance to my other shipments. hahaha
Maybe that's a silly way to think about it; who knows.
 
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