What about liner lock Advatages?

Aux

Aux

Joined
Jan 29, 2003
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I fit the rather large group of folks who have something of a distrust of liner locks - probably because far too many of them have been poorly designed. However, there are a few folders on my buy list that are liner lock only. Especially in the case of the Al Mar Sere 2000, it appears that a well designed and built liner lock can be very sturdy.

Since I have seen very little praise of the liner lock, I thought I would solicit opinions of the potential advantages to a well built liner lock.

I will put the first in as one that came to me recently: Since the lock mechanisim is simple and exposed, a quick inspection can show the wear state and lockup point, without any disassembly. In some cases, this could be advantageous, allowing for a quick equipment inspection. Harder to do with a more complex lock like an Axis.

Note: No Axis bashing here - I understand it's advantages. Unfortunately, it is not available on all designs :D
 
The advantages for me are that a liner lock usually allows the blade to open very smoothly, and is fairly easy to use once you get the hang of it. However, I'm not a huge fan of the liner lock. I'd much rather go with an axis lock-- just my .02$
--Josh
 
IMHO Liner locks have two obvious advantage:

1. Built properly, they can be VERY smooth opening and closing

and 2. It's a pretty convenient lock to engage/disengage, and unlike alot of other locks (including the axis), the lock itself doesn't affect the feel and stroke of opening/closing (this can sometimes be an annoyance on lockbacks.)
 
As long as the geometry of the lock is correct and the liner is thick enough to structurally support it then I have no problems with a liner lock. In fact my current edc is a liner lock. One thing I've discovered is that there are some intangibles that also count for something. The liner lock I am carrying is a custom knife and the maker put the "spring" in the liner closer to the blade tang than some others I've seen. What this does is give the lock more force when it comes over and in behind the blade tang. More force on the spring means it takes more force to disengage the lock also. A couple of other things I've noticed. The blade tang has a 90 degree cut on the blade tang that supports the liner lock bar. If you push down on the liner when the blade is locked open the liner will not budge. I have seen some that would move down and as a result cause slippage of the lock. Lastly a good liner lock bar should ride down in the frame enough to prevent the fleshy part of your hand from coming into contact when you have a "death grip" on that sucker. With these three things in place the liner lock I am carrying has my confidence. Add to that that the liner is constructed of >070" gauge titanium and the support is there for most anything I, note I said I, will run into.

Like the others a liner lock will allow a quick glance to check for any debris and in most cases is fairly easy to clean if there is debris. The bottom line is that the liner lock is a fairly simple mechanism when you look at it but very complicated to build it correctly. One thing I know is that J.W. Smith has got the know-how!!
 
Art is correct, a liner lock is a fairly simple mechanism, and yet, one which seems to be very difficult to properly execute. I have seen so many liner locks, both on customs and production, that just werent right. Sometimes, the liner is a little on the thin side for my tastes, i agree that thickness isnt everything, but, it surely does matter. Also, all too often, the liner creeps too far to the right, even on a brand new knife. I like the liner to fully engage the blade, but, well on the left side, so that as it wears, it will move slowly to the right, not start there to begin with, only to get worse. You would think that it wouldnt be that hard to do a liner lock correctly and yet, id say at least 3/4 of the ones i see arent what i would call perfectly, or even well done.

Now, frame locks are, when done well, IMO, a much stronger alternative to a LL, and one needs not look further than the Sebenza to see how strong a well designed and fitted liner/frame lock can be. Having also just received my Strider SnG framelock, i can say it too is as strong a lock as is possible and would never fail. I was even impressed with the strength and lockup of the relatively inexpensive Buck/Strider folder i recently played with at a shop, very thick liners, great lockup, a very sturdy and well done liner lock, and i can only imagine the real Strider AR which it is based on is even stronger and more robust.

So, when a liner lock or frame lock is designed and fitted properly, it can be an extremely strong lock, the problem is, a really well made one isnt that easy to find.
 
Has anyone done full testing of Framelockers/linerlocks with oil or something slick on the lockbar? That would be an interesting thing to see which lock is most immune to slick stuff interferring with them.
I accidentally got a little on the Lockbar of a S-2 and it took very little pressure to get it to slip off the tang.
 
If I'm not mistaken you can apply a little bit of oil to a sticky liner lock in order to smooth it up. A proper liner lock should not move to unlock when pressure is applied rather it should move more to the right when pressure is added, provided it is a "righty" to begin with.

Meg is right on with the framelock! In fact I've sold three of my JW Smith folders to replace them with three framelockers also by JW!! I'll post up some pics over the next week or so as they arrive. Also have another Obie framelock coming. I really like the framelocks....but I also like a properly executed liner lock and the LDC-5 is as properly executed as I've seen in a L-O-N-G time!
 
Hey Art. I know i remember reading that you own some of the Buck/Striders, i was curious if you own any real Striders, in particular the SnG?

If you havent yet done so, check out my review a few posts down on the SnG. You strike me as the kind of guy who likes a knife thats about 100 times stronger than it needs to be, and the SnG, much like a Sebenza, definitely is just that. Neat knife.
 
It's kinda funny but NO STRIDERS. I never have been in the right place at the right time with cash in hand to land one. I would like to get an AR at some point though. I played with a couple of the SnG prototypes that NCBlades has but I could not come to terms with the half titanium half G-10. Give me solid titanium and I will have one!
 
"What about liner lock Advantages?"

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm Still thinking..............:confused:
 
My BM 905 has the liner lock and I think Benchmade did an excellent job there. It locks up nice and tight, and there's seriously no blade play in any direction, which really surprised me as well. Even though I've had it for less than a year, it's been opened and closed a LOT, and the lock isn't anywhere near the opposite liner yet. Like others have said, it's smooth. I have no complaints about the liner lock on the 905.
 
Sticky I think the advantages of a liner lock over a lockback would be ease of opening and ease of closing , both with one hand and also the ability to quickly, at a glance, tell if anything is in the lock area that would prevent lockup. A well made, properly made linerlock is a great knife!
 
one of the more obvious advatages of a liner lock mechanism is improved blade to handle ratio. A lock back and a liner lock with the same case length, the liner locks' blade will be perhaps 15-20% longer. I have seen certain makers achieve a true one to one ratio with clever design techniques.
 
One more advantage, You could have a smooth part of the tang (near the spine).
Liner locks were originally designed to solve a couple of problems of lockbacks.
Lockbacks have to have a pretty square cut at the tang near the spine (for the lockbar to slip in), and without a good handle design, you could scratch your hand pretty badly depending on whether the knife is tip up or tip down.
Also lockbacks tends to fail when there's crud at the right spots, and the linerlock is less suspetible to that.
I'm fine with properly built linerlocks. In fact, one of my favourites is the Starmate and the CRKT M16. I just tested the CRKT M16 and it doesn't disengage (even though the liner lock intentionally disengage quite easily)
 
I agree with all of the above comments to the effect that properly made liner locks are up there with the best. One only has to look at the top makers that use the liner lock: Terzuola, Crawford, Elishewitz, Dozier, Darrel Ralph, etc. If there was some inherent design flaw with the liner lock, I highly doubt these distinguished makers would use it.

It is a question of proper execution.;)
 
Liner locks fail (one reason) when there is flex in the frame. I just about cut my finger off on a Buck odesey (a cheap knife with a blade of pretty good steel) by testing this. To see if the frame flexes open the knife and look into the lock, blade up. Apply a side pressure to the blade away from the lock. Does the lock move on the base of the blade? Obviously this is bad. On my knife this was because it was held together with rivets, and the rivets became loose- very slightly with time. I know this because I could get a .0015 inch feeler gauge between the 1st rivet and the frame. I took it apart and replaced the rivets with screws and some stuff I found at the hardware store. (3 hours with a dremel tool, files and such) and no more lock slippage.
Knife looks kinda funny though, but it was an experiment.
Next time, I will take a hammer and punch to the rivet and peen that sucker down until I can't get the gauge in there. If you have this problem with a Buck odesey and don't have the time for this nonsense, just throw it away and buy another one, they're cheap. But don't use it in this condition for anything but slicing tomatoes.
 
wouldn't linerlocks be simpler to make than Lockbacks? hmmmmm Im guessing this is the main reason there are so many makers of them.
 
Good Evening All-

Wow, it does seem very fashionable to "bash" linerlocks on the forums! My experience has been with lockbacks, linerlocks, AXIS locks, and countless fixed blades in daily use ranging from corporate/office environments to mountaineering/backcountry skiing.

Without exception, my linerlocks (Benchmade & Microtech) have been very, very reliable and have NEVER failed. The well-worn actions have been as slick as oil on ice. As mentioned by YoungCutter, the lock itself does not affect the feel/stroke of opening or closing, which is apparent with the otherwise-wonderful AXIS lock. These linerlocks are not coddled, nor are they abused. They are merely cleaned-up before storage and receive their fair share of Mil-Tech lubricant.

Linerlocks are a good thing! Always keep an eye open for new technology, but at the same time keep your old friends close at hand....

~ Blue Jays ~
 
Liner locks have gotten a bad name with all the cheap copies flooding the market. Even big name cutlers have made some linerlocks that I think suspect. Schrade's Cliphanger has to have the thinnest liner lock I have ever seen! The Buck Oddessy is also pretty thin. The flex test that Garretts mentioned is a good way to tell if the knife is likely to fail. It all boils down to a properly executed design........when done correctly the linerlock is as strong a lock as you would need for a folder.
 
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