What angle should my PM2's edge be reground to?

C

Conner Michaux

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Jul 8, 2018
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My knife is sent in for warranty Repair/Replacment right now but when it gets back Im going to be sending it to RazorEdgeKnives so I can get it Modified, Right out of the factory Spyderco's come at a 15-16 degree angle I believe, And I was wondering if there is a better angle to get it reground to? I would be using it for the regular stuff like cutting food, opening packages, and small camping chores. Day to day utility purposes. But I want it to be reeeeeeally sharp... Any suggestions?
 
S30V? I wouldn't go too steep as S30V can get really chippy, I usually run mine at ~15 dps with a (not unsubstantial) 17-21 dps micro bevel; best bet probably is asking josh himself for advice
 
SV-97 said:
best bet probably is asking josh himself for advice
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I totally second that one. He has seen it all and would know.

Personally I have had Spyderco tell me a stock edge on one of their knives they investigated for me was up into 18° or 19°. I have measured some up into 20° on folders.
I haven't found my Spyderco S30V to be a problem chip wise. I highly recommend touching up the S30V with diamond stones for the most durable edge.

Personally I like the edges you describe (as opposed to something for beating through tough materials) and so I go quite thin on the reprofile, quite shallow on the sharpening bevel and then if the edge rolls or otherwise has a problem I steepen the angle with a secondary bevel. So far I haven't actually had to use a steeper secondary but I am careful with my knives. YMMV
 
Just look how S30V soars up the Ankerson rope cutting chart with a little geometry change (and maybe a touch harder but only half a point or so) and the Military is no slouch right:
. . . and above S110V . . . :eek: WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ? :eek:
:D
. . . . . .
S30V - 620 - Michael Raymond Estrella Custom - 60.5 - 61 RC - .006" behind the edge
S110V - 600 - Mule - 60 RC - .015" -.018" behind the edge.
S90V - 600 - Benchmade 940-1 - 59-61 RC - .018" Behind the edge.
S35VN - 560 - Fiddleback Forge Kephart - 60-61 RC - .015" Behind the Edge.
CTS-XHP - 540 - Cold Steel Ultimate Hunter - 63.5 RC - .020" behind the edge
CPM M4 - 500 - Spyderco Gayle Bradley - 62.5 - .022" behind the edge
S90V - 460 - Military - 60 RC
S90V/CPM 154 - Para 2 - 460 - ? RC
White Steel Laminate - 460 - HSC Custom - 63-64 HRC - .020" behind the edge
RWL-34 - Mule Team 22 - 440 - 61-62 RC - .020" Behind the edge
CTS 204P - 420 - Para 2
ZDP -189 - 420 - Endura 4 - 65 RC
Niolox - 420 - LX Blades - 59 - 59.5 RC - .006" behind the edge
BD1N - 420 - Phil Wilson - 60 HRC - .020" behind the edge
M390 - 400 - Benchmade 810-1401 Contego 60-62 RC
M390 - 380 - Military - 61 RC
ELMAX - 340 - ZT 0770CF - ? RC
ELMAX - 340 - Para 2 - ? RC
AEB-L - 340 - Tim Johnson Custom - 60 RC - .006" behind the edge
HAP-40 - 320 - Spyderco Endura - ? RC - .024" behind the edge
S35VN - 320 - Chris Reeve Sebenza 25 - ? RC - .021" behind the edge
CruForgeV - 300 - Bluntcut Custom - 62 HRC - .012" behind the edge
S30V - 300 - Military - 60 RC
. . . . . .

IMG_5157.jpg
 
Conner Michaux said:
Okay i have some questions, What is a micro bevel and what is a secondary bevel? Im sorry for the noob questions.
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I never use secondary bevels unless I go one degree steeper to work around some rounded edge or to get a quick touch up on an edge that is dulling.

The primary sharpening bevel is what forms the edge when the blade is taken to a power grinder at the knife maker. To sharpen the knife all one has to do is just sharpen to that same angle until the apex is sharp (no glint on the edge under bright light or you get a wire edge).

A secondary bevel can be as little as a couple of strokes on a stone to a steeper angle to help debur the edge or many strokes at a significantly steeper angle to strengthen the edge if it is getting dinged up in use.
Here is a master talking about this vary topic and I totally agree from person experience. Meaning : always go very thin and shallow angle then make the edge a little more robust if needed. To start on the western end of the spectrum, a fat edge with an obtuse grind and then thin it a little at a time is just mind numbingly, cross eyed badger spit, crazy to do.

 
Conner Michaux said:
Okay i have some questions, What is a micro bevel and what is a secondary bevel? Im sorry for the noob questions.
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We probably mean the same thing, a secondary bevel usually refers to the cutting edge bevel(as opposed to the Main grind) where angle_secondary>angle_primary/Main. If you add a microbevel you add another bevel with shallower angle, a tertiary bevel if you will. If you look at the whole thing from the edge and ignore the Main grind you could refer to the microbevel as secondary bevel.
Ohx2Rs4.png

Don't have a good Picture Handy but here Main is on the lower Edge and secondary is on top; Micro would be another bevel on top
 
Conner Michaux said:
micro bevel and what is a secondary bevel?
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Sorry I didn't clear that up and I am not this big expert person. I admit to playing fast and loose with some of this terminology.
I think one thing to pay particular attention to terminology wise is to specify
"Sharpening bevel" . . . as in primary Sharpening bevel, secondary Sharpening bevel.
A micro bevel is ALWAYS a secondary sharpening bevel. I suppose there could be a tertiary sharpening bevel (adding an even steeper micro bevel to the existing micro bevel ) but that is getting into the realm of roundy edges (think stone cutting tools) that I have no use for ESPECIALLY in a knife blade and part of the reason I avoid strops like the plague.

What other bevel could there be you may ask ? There is the main blade grind bevel. The sides of the knife that taper from the spine to the edge. That is NOT, in most cases, the sharpening bevel though. From there one can have added bevels on the main blade grind that is still not a sharpening bevel but to go there would make things overly confusing.
Here is a photo
images.jpeg
 
C Conner Michaux , do you have a sharpening system? What you need is info about the steel you have and whether it will support the thinner edge. IMO, Spyderco has it dialed in on edge thickness to allow their knives to be the best slicers offered today as well as having a stable edge.
Always remember, once you take steel off, it can't be put back on. Then again, IMO, it's better to take a little off at a time to get the optimum performance out of the blade that will hold up to your needs.
IMO, Spyderco's are the sharpest knives out of the box that's made today. In order to keep it reeeeeeeally sharp, you've got to maintain it and not let it get dull, hence, you need some sort of sharpening system. Some people will sharpen at a specific angle (say 17 degrees per side) then come back and touch up at 20 degrees per side to help strengthen the edge.
 
Ajack60 said:
Some people will sharpen at a specific angle (say 17 degrees per side) then come back and touch up at 20 degrees per side to help strengthen the edge.
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I am a sharpening noob, but this technique has been working well for me with everything from 8Cr13 to S110V, using the Sharpmaker for the 20° step.
 
Totally. It's what Spyderco aimed for and it certainly isn't arbitrary. I'll say that the edge angle best suited for you depends on what you're doing. You said you wanted the sharpest knife possible, well that would mean a shallower angle. But with a shallower angle and sharper knife, you'll get decreased strength.

If I was cutting hotdogs all day I'd go for the thinnest edge possible. If I'm whittling sticks and doing camp chores I'd go for a steeper angle, relatively.
 
Conner Michaux said:
Is there a better angle? I just want something strong but sharp.
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"Better" at what? Imagine its on a sliding scale. The lower your angle the "sharper" it will be. The higher your angle the "stronger" the edge will be. Both can be sharpened to hair shaving razor sharp. The angle determines the thickness behind the edge (though this is more affected by stock thickness of the blade and primary grind) which affects cutting performance and strength of the actual edge.

"Sharper"-----------------------|----------------------- "Stronger"
<--Decreasing angle................................Increasing angle-->
 
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FWIW 17dps is my go to for most blades, but found that 15dps works best for me on the PM2 because of the great factory grind.
 
Just my opinion... I bought s SharpMaker to sharpen my knives a few years ago (I know wet stones are better, but my work space isn't water friendly). For most of my knives, I've been very happy with the suggested setting of 15 per side (30 overall) with the coarse and then fine stones for the secondary bevel. I then check that the burrs are gone, and then do a few quick passes at 20 per side (40 overall microbevel) with the fine stone, again checking for burrs. I don't like spending a lot of time sharpening my knives like real knife aficionados, but prefer having a knife that is sharp for random everyday tasks. I am very happy with it, as being a noob sharpener, it's fast, easy, and convenient.

My standard is push cutting through paper (not draw cutting/slicing) and not having it get significantly dull from cutting a large cardboard box. Nothing amazing, just more reflective of my everyday needs. I tend to carry more specific cutting tools when I'm planning on doing significant work, e.g. box cutter for lots of cardboard or fiberglass insulation, a real kitchen knife when preparing foods, a scissors for blister packs, and wire cutters for wires or zip ties. I also tend to be more particular on handle shape than blade steel for most mid to high level quality knives. Honestly, for my "backup" needs, I don't see an astronomical difference in my 420HC Buck than I do with my S30V Para 2, and sharpen each almost as often from my every day uses, therefore I really appreciate the ease and speed of a quick touchup.

The downside, is that for harder-to-sharpen steel, it takes longer (a LOT longer if the factory angles are signigicantly different than the SharpMaker's set angles). However, this is a one time thing, as usually after the new angles are ground in, future sharpenings are much easier. I use my Sharpmaker for steels from 1095 to M4, but know that some suggest that the ceramic stones rearrange the molecules incorrectly on higher end steel (I can't remember the explanation). However, since my most used knives are 420HC, 154 CM, and S30V, and S35VN, I don't have enough experience with my higher end steel knives to confirm (I just like the ergonomics better on said knives). You can purchase diamond stones for the Sharpmaker, but it's a very coarse grit.

Also... my understanding, is that a primary bevel is the bevel from the full thickness of the stock to the blade area, the secondary bevel is the bevel from where the primary bevel ends to the sharp blade, and the microbevel is when you put a minute bevel onto the blade itself off of the secondary bevel.
 
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