What are bayonets good for?

golok

golok

Joined
Oct 20, 2000
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Besides the obvious, I discover that most bayonets used by soldiers around the world tend to be long and slightly ugly.

Of course, their main purpose is clear and lethal but most bayonets tend to be one long sharpened piece of steel.

Most rifles don't have a stick-on bayonet anymore (I don't think so).

Combat situations have altered quite a bit since Second World War.

Are bayonets becoming obsolete?
 
As long as there are troops on the ground, there will always be a need for bayonets. The M16 and its variants are indeed equipped to receive a bayonet. Bayonets do not run out of ammunition -- and as long as there have been wars, there have been battles in which troops ran out of rounds. The bayonet turns the rifle into a pike. Such a weapon will always have a place, if only as a last-ditch alternative.

I read an account by a soldier once who complained, essentially, "Civilians are always asking if the bayonet is obsolete. As long as I'm in the field, carrying one is worth the weight."
 
Golok,

under www.bayonet.de you find the website of the most important manufacturer of bayonets, Eickhorn in Solingen, Germany. They produce even the bayonets for US M16 and for lots of other nations.

On this website you find the answers, why long knives on rifle muzzels are still important (in the view of their producer, of course).

Claus
 
Besides tomahawks, can someone think of a more efficient weapon then a spear?

It's long, keeps good distance, is very lethal.

Unless someone trow a tomahawk at your head, I don't see how to disarm a dude with a long bayonet on his knife.

Off course, guns, but as Razor said, you can run out of those.

Unless the military allows soldiers to carry longer then 10' knives or tomahawks, a bayonet will stay the close range weapon when out of bullets.
 
While bayonets may still have their place on the battlefield I'm not so sure I'd want to try and clip one on to an M-16. I remember reading awhile back that the military no longer uses real 16's for bayonet practice..seems that the breakage rate was too high to be acceptable.
 
That wouldn't surprise me; it's a superbly ergonomic weapon, and a pleasure to shoot, but were I to go to war I'd want something that can take a lot more physical abuse.
 
When I joined the army in 1982 I recieved no bayonet or unarmed combat training in basic. The current logic was that if it came down to bayonets and hand to hand you were screwed and you were going to die anyways! What bulls#$t! You know some clueless, "REMF" officer invented that logic!!!! You should train all soldiers on as much as possible to survive every combat scenario! Period.

However, the Army has changed its stance on bayonet fighting and now uses bayonet training as a valuable training aid to instill the "combat spirit" into the troops. The Army knows a bayonet fight is highly unlikely for most troops. At least that is what I was told when I was a Drill Sergeant. In fact the new M16A2 has a thicker barrel at the end and tougher stocks amoungst other improvements to handle bayonet fighting/training. I never saw any M16 rifles break during bayonet training. Any rifle with a bayonet attached becomes a real weapon for up close and personal work, it just looks and feels wicked. Furthermore, the bayonet course is one of the favorites for the troops, you should see how it "pumps them up"! Bayonet training is alive and well but for different reasons.
 
The bayonet is a handy, tough tool that probably gets more misuse and abuse than use in the purpose it was designed for. It's commonly used to pry things open, dig holes, driven into things to act as a peg, fire poker, throwing practice, just to name a few. In my experience the Kabars, other fixed blades,folders and multi-tools were reservved for the real cutting tasks. I should add, the issue Kabars saw a lot of the same abuse. Fixed bayonet rifles are very useful for crowd control and prisoner movement and some other guard details. The M16 has evolved into fairly rugged well accepted weapon (not always the case I remember when we had to turn in our M14s). Lightweight vs brute strength was one of the tradeoffs in it's evolution. My thoughts on it being damaged in hand to hand are: If you have to fix bayonets, fight hand to hand, survive and have a damaged weapon, I regret to say there are probably other serviceable
weapons lying around for use until you can be relieved, reinforced, resupplied, etc.
Regards, Greg
 
From what I hear bayonets are pretty dull. I dont know why we would not want our solders to have sharp bayonets??? Are we just being lazy, or do they just not hold a good edge??? I know when I become a Marine, I want something sharp hanging from my M-16A2.
 
The early bayonets were behemoths with blades averaging around 24 inches of length. They disappeared along with the calvary, and the knife bayonets of today are descended from either the M3 fighting knife of WWII (like the US M7), or the AK-47 wirecutter bayonets of the 1960s (Like the US M9). Bayonets today are more combat knife than weapon, but they are still useful for POW & crowd control. In combat they provide yet another obstacle for the enemy to overcome.

n2s
 
Toolin,

From what I hear, most bayonets come with a "utility" edge. In other words, it will cut, but not very well. I personally own a M7 bayonet. When I got it, it would cut, but only with great effort. With just a little work on an Arkansas stone, it is now razor sharp. In fact I cut myself pretty bad when I picked it up one day, and had forgotten that I had sharpened the top edge also. So, they can be sharp, I just don't think the average soldier is really worried enough to go through the extra effort. And the razor edge probably wouldn't last that long under field use conditions..just my .02 worth.

Chris
 
I went through Basic at Ft.Sill in 1986-1987 (what a Christmas, huh?) and we did learn bayonet and unarmed combat. We used the M16A1 and the old bayonet (pre-Buck M9) and I never saw one break or bend. I'm not saying they could'nt, I just never saw it happen.
Later at permanent-party (Ft. Lewis) we had the M16A2 and the M9 bayonet. Both the rifle and the bayonet were much better than their predecesors (IMHO). As I recall, though the arms room hardly ever issued them out, they were very sharp, and they could really cut concertina-wire too when used with the sheath.
My company had to fix-bayonets once for a change-of-command ceremony, which turned out to be a stupid idea. One guy locked his knees or something and passed out. When he fell backwards his bayonet cut the guy's chest directly behind him. It would have cut his face had he not been wearing his helmet.
I've never used a fixed-bayonet in combat but I believe it would very effective against unarmed opponents.

Allen.
 
My VN vet friend tells me that he carried two knives at all times...primary was either a Gerber MKII, Nyguen Dan, or a handforged Turkish copy of a Randall 2.

The other knife was an M7 bayonet.....and its use was primarily to scrape mud off his boots.....and to pry ammo crates.
 
Man, don't get me started on the M16. I ran more rifle ranges in the Army than I care to remember, and we were stopping the range every 10 minutes to clear a jam - and that was under controlled conditions. It's not heavy enough to be a good club, either.

Of course, I went through basic training with an M1 Garand, so you can guess what my favorite military rifle is... And it makes a great base for a bayonet, lots of mass for thrusting!
 
About 5 years ago I was about to leave for a week long canoe trip when a package arrived with a Spanish 1969 Cetme Bayonet. It had a nice plastic sheath so I decided to take it along. The carbon steel bolo blade turned out to be a real winner. I ended up using it for everything on that trip, and it is still attached to my backpack. Not bad for a $15 knife.

Another very popular model was the 1896 Swedish Marine bayonet. An innovative high quality hollow handled bayonet, that can be easily converted into a hollow handled survival knife. It looks alot like the older Vietnam era Randall model 18.

n2s
 
Originally posted by not2sharp

Another very popular model was the 1896 Swedish Marine bayonet. An innovative high quality hollow handled bayonet, that can be easily converted into a hollow handled survival knife.

n2s
Click to expand...

Second to that. I bought one of those in Gothenburg, in an antiques shop for something like $20, but have since found them available in ordinary surplus stores as well. Although a bit longish and too lightweight for chopping, it's a very nice bayonet and would work rather well as a fighter. Unfortunately the blade grind makes it impossible to shorten, which I would do if I could. I'd also modify the handle some, too.
 
the combat arms units in the army don't use the M16 anymore. they use the M4 Carbine it's a shorter version of the M16 and i've never seen one in real life or in a picture with a Bayonet on one. I've been stationed at a hospital for two years so I don't have too much experience with this weapon. Maybe some guys here in the Real Army:D could add more about this. I'm not sure if the Marines use it too but I think so. When I went through basic training 5 years ago we had bayonet training and it was pretty cool. I think it was more just to get us into the combat spirit though. you could tell the Drill Seargeants thought it was a waste of time. oh well Screw them it was one of the better days of Basic. We stabbed dummies and tires all day. we did use trainer M16s though.
 
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