What are the practical reasons to get large folders versus fixed knives?

M

maximus83

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Nov 7, 2011
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I own a couple of larger folders myself (let's consider "large" folder as those with blades approaching 4" or greater), and like them. My Spyderco Chinook 3 is one of my all-time favorite folders.

However I've been thinking lately about this: With large folders, why pay the added costs in $$$, the extra weight penalty (due to locking/opening hardware), and the reduced reliability of a folder? Instead, for folders why not just stick with small to mid-sized folders for EDC/pocket type of use, and for any blade in the 4" or larger vicinity, just get fixed blades?

Here's an example of the size/value proposition between a typical large folder, and an equivalent sized fixed blade in the same brand. Price quotes are from (( not a BF Dealer member )), for consistency. This is just to illustrate the general concept that when you get a large folder, the overall value proposition, when you factor in cost, the weight of the knife, etc., tends to favor the fixed blade. Note how the Benchmade Adamas fixed blade is thicker, longer, stronger (no lock), and costs less. This is quite typical:

Adamas Fixed:
- Cost: $119
- Steel: d2
- Blade length: 4.2"
- Blade thickness: 0.170"
- Weight: 5.6oz
Adamas Folder:
- Cost: $165
- Steel: d2
- Blade length: 3.82"
- Blade thickness: 0.160"
- Weight: 7.7oz

And here's another example, comparing the beefy Zero Tolerance Strider fixed knife (a 4" fixed blade for military users), with the beefy ZT 200 (perhaps their most beefy 4" folding knife, also made for military use). Here, the cost is higher on the fixed blade, but that is presumably because it uses a higher-end s30v steel, and a lot of it (since it is 0.25" thick). Otherwise, the overall value proposition again favors the fixed blade. Once again, the fixed blade has a MUCH thicker blade, and longer, in a higher-end steel, but it weighs only 1.4oz more, and costs only $40 more.
ZT Strider fixed:
- Cost: $199
- Steel: s30v
- Blade length: 4.25"
- Blade thickness: 0.25"
- Weight: 9.1oz
ZT 200 folder:
- Cost: $160
- Steel: 154cm
- Blade length: 3.875"
- Blade thickness: 0.156"
- Weight: 7.7oz

Bottom line that you can see illustrated with both cases above: If you're going to carry this much weight (over 6 oz for a knife) and go to this much expense anyway, the fixed blade appears to be the better "bang for the buck." You get a thicker, stronger blade, in the same or longer length, and cost is basically lower if using the same steel type and quantity.

Here's why I've been rethinking all this. Except for a tactical/defensive advantage, it's hard to see in my case what carrying a large folder really gains me. It's more expensive, it adds a ton of weight, but it's still less reliable than a fixed blade due to the locking mechanism, so it's still not really great for hard/survival type use. It adds length, but usually not ENOUGH length to make a huge difference over lighter, thinner, shorter EDC types of folders that are in the range of 3.4" to 3.6", such as the Spyderco Para Military 2. It's probably a bit easier to carry a 4" folder than it is to carry a 4" fixed blade, since that size of fixed blade requires a sheath and won't fit in standard pockets. So I will grant that point. But aside from that ONE advantage--the ability to carry the slightly larger folding blade conveniently in a pocket or whatever--I cannot see much practical advantage to carrying a large folder. They just aren't giving you that much more performance than their mid-sized folding counterparts. And if you are talking survival or hard/use, you definitely want a fixed blade anyway.

I'm just thinking out loud here, not trying to bash large folders, which I enjoy as much as anybody. Somebody chime in here and convince me why large folders are still useful for more than defensive use, and why they still deserve a place in your kit. Why is it still useful to carry a large folder, rather than just carrying say a medium folder for EDC, and then adding a 4" or greater fixed knife for hunting, camping, survival pack use?
 
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Hmm Well what do you personally use your knives for? If you can answer that Then I can answer why I am more interested in a large folder over a fixed blade of the same size.
 
To me and this is my opinion only, folders are for people wanting to show off or want to look cool trimming their cuticles. Fixed blades are for people that actually use knives.

I now have a job as a consultant. I wear a suit every day. I do have a few very nice folders, but those are just for my son to inherent. The fixed blades I still carry every day and are the greatest thing a man can own in my opinion.

If you spend any time camping, hiking, rock climbing, cooking, or fighting overseas or at home - then you would not even ask this question. At least in my opinion. Good luck man.
 
Army of Nobunaga said:
To me and this is my opinion only, folders are for people wanting to show off or want to look cool trimming their cuticles. Fixed blades are for people that actually use knives.

I now have a job as a consultant. I wear a suit every day. I do have a few very nice folders, but those are just for my son to inherent. The fixed blades I still carry every day and are the greatest thing a man can own in my opinion.

If you spend any time camping, hiking, rock climbing, cooking, or fighting overseas or at home - then you would not even ask this question. At least in my opinion. Good luck man.
Click to expand...

Not trying to start an argument but what hard use do you put your fixed blades through as a consultant and wearing a suit?
 
Everything, I do everything from slicing my hamburger to prying open file boxes. I used one to even pop a computer case last week.

I guess the point would be.. why choose a folder over a fixed?

To hide it? Wow nice.
To put it in your pocket? My fixed blades do that unless I have them on my belt.
To have a corkscrew?

Well I just do not get it. I have had folders fail too many times in my life. I like a fixed piece of metal at my side.


and as far as you guys not liking my opinion... lol. Well its my opinion and I dont think much of it or your opinions of it.
 
I agree with the OP. All of my folders are less than 4" because that's really all I need for a folding EDC blade. I do have any Izula 2 but my other fixed blade knives are over 4". I'd love to carry a fixed blade as my EDC but the Leo's in MD would probably harass me.
 
Army of Nobunaga said:
Everything, I do everything from slicing my hamburger to prying open file boxes. I used one to even pop a computer case.

I guess the point would be.. why choose a folder over a fixed?

To hide it? Wow nice.
To put it in your pocket? My fixed blades do that unless I have them on my belt.
To have a corkscrew?

Well I just do not get it. I have had folders fail too many times in my life. I like a fixed piece of metal at my side.


and as far as you guys not liking my opinion... lol. Well its my opinion and I dont think much of it or your opinions of it.
Click to expand...

I am sure that a coldsteel spartan or rajah or any of the larger tri-ad lock folders would do that with ease.
 
I think there are a lot more places you can take a folder, where a fixed blade might get you the 'stink-eye'...

And with a little more forethought and experience, a folder can accomplish much of what a fixed-blade can do, imo. Perhaps not everything but certainly enough to make the trade-off negligible for some.
 
timberweasel said:
I think there are a lot more places you can take a folder, where a fixed blade might get you the 'stink-eye'...

And with a little more forethought and experience, a folder can accomplish much of what a fixed-blade can do, imo. Perhaps not everything but certainly enough to make the trade-off negligible for some.
Click to expand...

My view exactly.
 
Nternal said:
Hmm Well what do you personally use your knives for? If you can answer that Then I can answer why I am more interested in a large folder over a fixed blade of the same size.
Click to expand...

For a knife in the 4"+ range, which is the size of folders we are talking about, this is typically the size of knife that's my primary belt knife when hiking, backpacking, at the range shooting, etc. Given that my main use of a larger blade tends to be outdoor activity (where I am usually free to carry a fixed blade anyway), this is what really has pushed me to reexamine why I even need these larger size folders. I really like my larger folders but hardly ever use them anymore. Don't use them for EDC (gave up on them as they seemed tacticool for a while, but were too heavy), and the last few years, don't really use them even for outdoors activity either. When I'm doing stuff outside, I want the strength of a fixed blade. When I'm EDC'ing, I want the compactness and light weight of a smaller blade.

This is what got me curious as to how others were using their large folders. Do they really feel they NEED a large folder and it's the best tool for certain kinds of situations? Or do they just like/prefer a large folder?
 
Army of Nobunaga said:
To me and this is my opinion only, folders are for people wanting to show off or want to look cool trimming their cuticles. Fixed blades are for people that actually use knives.

I now have a job as a consultant. I wear a suit every day. I do have a few very nice folders, but those are just for my son to inherent. The fixed blades I still carry every day and are the greatest thing a man can own in my opinion.

If you spend any time camping, hiking, rock climbing, cooking, or fighting overseas or at home - then you would not even ask this question. At least in my opinion. Good luck man.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the post, but you might want to tone this down a bit, just a suggestion. :-) You have like what, 4 posts here? And you basically just insulted a whole bunch of guys in a forum that's about knives by saying that everybody who likes large folders only gets them to show off. I'd rather keep the discussion friendly.
 
Perhaps man. And maybe I do not have enough experience with folders.

I say fixed blade but am ready to be corrected and learn more here, even at my old age.
 
Folders are ounces, not tons, more than comparable fixed blades. They are more convenient in many situations, being self-contained, no sheath needed. Any reasonably well-made folder is strong enough for "survival" in the sense of getting around in the wilds under familiar conditions. Lost in the mountains in midwinter? Give me a good parka and I'll worry about what knife I have later.

Personal preference is something else. Some of us grew up with slipjoints and folders, some had more use for fixed blades. I don't necessarily prefer either, I use what's best for the job and I have plenty of choices of both. But personally I prefer folders for daily carry for convenience and concealability.
 
maximus83 said:
For a knife in the 4"+ range, which is the size of folders we are talking about, this is typically the size of knife that's my primary belt knife when hiking, backpacking, at the range shooting, etc. Given that my main use of a larger blade tends to be outdoor activity (where I am usually free to carry a fixed blade anyway), this is what really has pushed me to reexamine why I even need these larger size folders. I really like my larger folders but hardly ever use them anymore. Don't use them for EDC (gave up on them as they seemed tacticool for a while, but were too heavy), and the last few years, don't really use them even for outdoors activity either. When I'm doing stuff outside, I want the strength of a fixed blade. When I'm EDC'ing, I want the compactness and light weight of a smaller blade.

This is what got me curious as to how others were using their large folders. Do they really feel they NEED a large folder and it's the best tool for certain kinds of situations? Or do they just like/prefer a large folder?
Click to expand...

Yeah I understand your question but what exactly do you use your knives for in the outdoors? That's my question.
 
timberweasel said:
I think there are a lot more places you can take a folder, where a fixed blade might get you the 'stink-eye'...

And with a little more forethought and experience, a folder can accomplish much of what a fixed-blade can do, imo. Perhaps not everything but certainly enough to make the trade-off negligible for some.
Click to expand...

These are great points. And this sort of ties in with an advantage I mentioned of a large folder: it's true that you can get a large blade in your POCKET with a large folder. You are generally NOT going to fit a full-sized fixed knife with a 4" blade, sheath and all, in a normal jeans pocket.
 
maximus83 said:
Thanks for the post, but you might want to tone this down a bit, just a suggestion. :-) You have like what, 4 posts here? And you basically just insulted a whole bunch of guys in a forum that's about knives by saying that everybody who likes large folders only gets them to show off. I'd rather keep the discussion friendly.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion. sorry people take such insult so easily, I will definitely go back to reading more and posting less. I understand my post count weighs heavily on my life experience on knives and well frankly.. how dare me.


gl to the op in his quest... and the real answer is probably "Buy many and see what works for you"

adios gang. logging out for thecount.
 
maximus83 said:
I own a couple of larger folders myself (let's consider "large" folder as those with blades approaching 4" or greater), and like them. My Spyderco Chinook 3 is one of my all-time favorite folders.

However I've been thinking lately about this: With large folders, why pay the added costs in $$$, the extra weight penalty (due to locking/opening hardware), and the reduced reliability of a folder? Instead, for folders why not just stick with small to mid-sized folders for EDC/pocket type of use, and for any blade in the 4" or larger vicinity, just get fixed blades?

Here's an example of the size/value proposition between a typical large folder, and an equivalent sized fixed blade in the same brand. Price quotes are from Knifeworks, for consistency. This is just to illustrate the general concept that when you get a large folder, the overall value proposition, when you factor in cost, the weight of the knife, etc., tends to favor the fixed blade. Note how the Benchmade Adamas fixed blade is thicker, longer, stronger (no lock), and costs less. This is quite typical:

Adamas Fixed:
- Cost: $119
- Steel: d2
- Blade length: 4.2"
- Blade thickness: 0.170"
- Weight: 5.6oz
Adamas Folder:
- Cost: $165
- Steel: d2
- Blade length: 3.82"
- Blade thickness: 0.160"
- Weight: 7.7oz

And here's another example, comparing the beefy Zero Tolerance Strider fixed knife (a 4" fixed blade for military users), with the beefy ZT 200 (perhaps their most beefy 4" folding knife, also made for military use). Here, the cost is higher on the fixed blade, but that is presumably because it uses a higher-end s30v steel, and a lot of it (since it is 0.25" thick). Otherwise, the overall value proposition again favors the fixed blade. Once again, the fixed blade has a MUCH thicker blade, and longer, in a higher-end steel, but it weighs only 1.4oz more, and costs only $40 more.
ZT Strider fixed:
- Cost: $199
- Steel: s30v
- Blade length: 4.25"
- Blade thickness: 0.25"
- Weight: 9.1oz
ZT 200 folder:
- Cost: $160
- Steel: 154cm
- Blade length: 3.875"
- Blade thickness: 0.156"
- Weight: 7.7oz

Bottom line that you can see illustrated with both cases above: If you're going to carry this much weight (over 6 oz for a knife) and go to this much expense anyway, the fixed blade appears to be the better "bang for the buck." You get a thicker, stronger blade, in the same or longer length, and cost is basically lower if using the same steel type and quantity.

Here's why I've been rethinking all this. Except for a tactical/defensive advantage, it's hard to see in my case what carrying a large folder really gains me. It's more expensive, it adds a ton of weight, but it's still less reliable than a fixed blade due to the locking mechanism, so it's still not really great for hard/survival type use. It adds length, but usually not ENOUGH length to make a huge difference over lighter, thinner, shorter EDC types of folders that are in the range of 3.4" to 3.6", such as the Spyderco Para Military 2. It's probably a bit easier to carry a 4" folder than it is to carry a 4" fixed blade, since that size of fixed blade requires a sheath and won't fit in standard pockets. So I will grant that point. But aside from that ONE advantage--the ability to carry the slightly larger folding blade conveniently in a pocket or whatever--I cannot see much practical advantage to carrying a large folder. They just aren't giving you that much more performance than their mid-sized folding counterparts. And if you are talking survival or hard/use, you definitely want a fixed blade anyway.

I'm just thinking out loud here, not trying to bash large folders, which I enjoy as much as anybody. Somebody chime in here and convince me why large folders are still useful for more than defensive use, and why they still deserve a place in your kit. Why is it still useful to carry a large folder, rather than just carrying say a medium folder for EDC, and then adding a 4" or greater fixed knife for hunting, camping, survival pack use?
Click to expand...


Most of it is for legal reasons I would gather.

Not too many places one can carry a FB concealed legally.

Then we have Society to think about and it's really screwed up and getting worse all the time so when carrying those FB knives openly and all of the potential issues that goes with that.

When in public I carry a folder, out in the field etc I carry a fixed blade.

Given a real choice I wouldn't own any folders at all.
 
Army of Nobunaga said:
Everything, I do everything from slicing my hamburger to prying open file boxes. I used one to even pop a computer case last week.

I guess the point would be.. why choose a folder over a fixed?

To hide it? Wow nice.
To put it in your pocket? My fixed blades do that unless I have them on my belt.
To have a corkscrew?

Well I just do not get it. I have had folders fail too many times in my life. I like a fixed piece of metal at my side.


and as far as you guys not liking my opinion... lol. Well its my opinion and I dont think much of it or your opinions of it.
Click to expand...

this is purely opinion based and best suits your needs. i would like to know what tasks you were preforming while a folding knife failed? last folding knife that failed on my was a winchester from walmart for $6. other than that even my "lower" quality knives have never failed. and for me a wear a esee fixed on the back of my belt and a zt 0300 in my FRP. i never reach for the esee either. its always the zt to get my knife out fast. and thats my personal preference.

i think this thread is completely mis leading. everyone knows, well "should know" a fixed blade is better in every way over a fixed. but some people have laws to abide by along with daily routines that don't call for a fixed blade. and all the IT / consultants i know usually use proper tools to open a customers computer case and not the edge of a knife. just saying a professional always has the correct tools for the job.
 
personal preference I suppose.

also availability of pocket space. some dont want a knife on belt, or its not easilyaccessible via IWB, shoulder holster, etc. and some pants have shorter pockets then others so a fixed blade handle sticking out of a pocket may draw more attention then wanted. where as a clip can be easily over looked, even on 4'++ folders.

testing of steels, there are many hard use folders that use steels that arent in fixed blades, or at least not in the same price range. take a BM 710 in M390 for example, I havent seen a fixed blade that is in the same steel and price range or lower for that matter.

Thats all I can think of atm.
 
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