What are you prying with your knives?

[tknife]

There's always a lot of controversy about using your knife for prying. Maybe some picture prying open a locked bank vault or using your knife in place of a jack handle when fixing a flat. I think a certain amount of prying with a field knife is not only NOT abuse, but may be a necessary part of primitive camping.
For example, I will chop into a piece of wood, then use the point to pry out the resiny heart wood. Or stab into a piece of wood and torque the tip sideways to break out pieces of wood. Even wedging between bones and twisting to break out animal bone when making other tools. I have used very large field knives all the way down to SAK's to do this with no problems (Although I did twist the tip on a SAK but was able to straighten it out with pliers).
Especially when considering a large, heavy, thick bladed field knife, I would think they should be more than tough enough for some prying and twisting. Otherwise, what would be the point in having a knife of that size?

 

[JohnnyO]

This has the making of an interesting thread. What you state is, what I would call normal use of a field knife. I'd be interested to see what type of prying people do.

The reason I find it interesting is, I don't see me breaking my inexpensive SRK any sooner than my 1/4" infi. Yet, there is quite a substantial difference in price. When is strong, strong enough? One may be stronger than the other, but at what point (no pun intended) is it moot?

 

[alco141]

i think you would have a prety hard time breaking a SRK, i have beat one up pretty good. it has not begged for mercy yet. probably one of the best field knives there are especially for the price, ifr you lose it you wont cry hard tears, lose on of those busse or rinaldi knives and there will be some wailing and gnashing of teeth.

alex

 

[MelancholyMutt]

I think the most you can expect from a knife in terms of prying is maybe an ammo crate

 

[Zip06]

We used Kabar's to pry open c-ration cases but never had to use one on a ammo can. Used them to pry hinges; open stubborn lids; open cans; the handle to smash things. Also used them as diggers. Long ago and far away, I think any knife should be able to accomplish those tasks.

 

[MelancholyMutt]

Well, what happens is that people expect that a knife can be used for prying without ruining the edge. If one abandons the expectation of edge retention, you can use the knife for anything.

 

[JohnnyO]

i think you would have a prety hard time breaking a SRK, i have beat one up pretty good. it has not begged for mercy yet. probably one of the best field knives there are especially for the price, ifr you lose it you wont cry hard tears, lose on of those busse or rinaldi knives and there will be some wailing and gnashing of teeth.

alex

Yep! I agree.....

 

[biogon]

Hmmm...

Staples? Dinged the tip on something with desk staples.

Heavy box fasteners? No problem prying these out when there was no screwdriver or hammer nearby.

Boxes? Heavy corrugated 4-ply cardboard, needed some leverage to take it apart.

Monitor? Had a computer monitor on a desk so long that even though the bolt holding it was removed, it was stuck fast. No prybar, used a knife. No problem, but I didn't have to pry very far. The rubber feet had melted into the desk (!?).

Chair? One of the pressure-fit legs on a chair was stuck in the joint... a little coaxing and it came out.

I dunno... I don't do any heavy prying. Long time ago I had a stuck door that I REALLY wanted to get out of... wished I had a good sharpened prybar on me then.

-j

 

[swede79]

Mainly prying wood as others have stated. I agree with the remarks about the SRK, it's probably the most knife for the money that I have ever seen, especially the factory 2nds. They also take and keep a far keener edge than most other knives I have used.

 

[Bill Siegle]

I have had to pry knives from blocks of wood I was trying to split. A lot of torque is applied at ties like that. Also although not really prying, I have used a knife to pull myself out of the water when the ice broke. About 200#s of me and as much cold water as Carhart overalls could hold Glad I had the SOG Trident instead of my Buck Lite that day! I know people who've used blades as a hand hold when going up steep inclines. I think those are reasonable prying chores for a heavy duty field knife.

 

[pict]

The most prying I seem to do is prying up rocks and roots from places I want to sleep. I usually do this with my machete, tehn chop any soil lumps until they flatten out. It is very abusive to the blade so I only do this with my Tramontina machetes and then hit them with a mill file so they will cut again. Mac

 

[tknife]

Those are good examples of unexpected survival situations. It's good to see a maker agreeing that some prying in a field knife is reasonable I think the above would not alter the edge retention either.

I have had to pry knives from blocks of wood I was trying to split. A lot of torque is applied at ties like that. Also although not really prying, I have used a knife to pull myself out of the water when the ice broke. About 200#s of me and as much cold water as Carhart overalls could hold Glad I had the SOG Trident instead of my Buck Lite that day! I know people who've used blades as a hand hold when going up steep inclines. I think those are reasonable prying chores for a heavy duty field knife.

 

[Moine]

Good thread !

To answer the question, I'm generally NOT using my knifes for prying... unless I can't manage the task any other way. I'll usually just pick a piece of wood, a rock or anything else (even real prybars ).

That being said, I still want my heavy duty field knives to be tough enough for some minimal prying, just in case I have to... To me, "minimal prying" is about holding my weight when I pull myself up fast (that's roughly twice my weight, if you convert the newtons). I can't apply much more force than that to a pry bar anyways...

Cheers,

David

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Especially when considering a large, heavy, thick bladed field knife, I would think they should be more than tough enough for some prying and twisting. Otherwise, what would be the point in having a knife of that size?

Essentially that is the critical issue, assuming you are just cutting with it the knife only need be stiff enough to not bend excessively, this is 1/16" to 1/8" at maximum depending on the extent of taper and hardness.

Any time you go over that you are adding weight for power while chopping and cross section for strength while prying. If you constrain the knife to not be able to do these things then you just make a directly inferior product to an Opinel-like design.

That being said the problem with the recent McClung failure was that the knife shattered into pieces, and it was supposed to be a differentially tempered carbon steel blade. Try to get an ABS blade (which McClung degrades on a regular basis for their ignorance of proper heat treating methods - see his online articles for more information), to do the same thing. Maybe you can bend it while prying if you are heavy/strong enough, but you won't shatter it.

-Cliff

 

[Moine]

Cliff Stamp says: "Any time you go over that you are adding weight for power while chopping and cross section for strength while prying. If you constrain the knife to not be able to do these things then you just make a directly inferior product to an Opinel-like design."

In other words, you have (at least) two classes of knives... the cutters/slicers (Opinels, Moras, Bog Dogs, AFCK, and the like) and the heavy duty ones, choppers/pryers (Becker Brute, Battle Mistress, Battle Rat...)...

That's basically what most people carry in the bush, no? At least I do...

The "in between" categories (Ka-Bars, Buck 120, BK7...) never really satisfied me... I never tried a Camp Tramp, though... It might be on the upper-limit of that category...

Most good quality large choppers are, IMO, tough enough to do some serious prying. None of the small cutters/slicers I own are (maybe except the Howling Rat, as Cliff's brother tested it ).

Cheers,

David

 

[tknife]

Moine, you bring up something I've found myself as well. I always have a small utiility knife and a large chopper. I've tried just using a mid sized knife, and never am satisfied. I wind up going back to the big/little combo. I use the big one for all the chopping, digging, prying etc. and use the little one for food prep, whittling etc.

 

[Thomas Linton]

I understand the point about a slicer or chopper. But I wish to defend the "tweener." I look for a backpacking knife that can split open a 2" diameter piece of wood. The BA at 3/16" thick will do that nicely (some prying involved). A lesser knife might do that task too, but the BA seems less likely to fail in the effort. It also cuts as well as I need while saving weight over the Brute Class items. In car camps I have an axe, khukuri, or both.

 

[CNCTEMA]

God made crowbars, prybars, and wrecking bars for a reason....errr, maybe it wasn't god, but they are still usualy the right tool.

If I need to get in to something now, and can't find a better tool I will use a knife.

 

[Moine]

I understand the point about a slicer or chopper. But I wish to defend the "tweener." I look for a backpacking knife that can split open a 2" diameter piece of wood. The BA at 3/16" thick will do that nicely (some prying involved). A lesser knife might do that task too, but the BA seems less likely to fail in the effort. It also cuts as well as I need while saving weight over the Brute Class items. In car camps I have an axe, khukuri, or both.

Thomas,

Of course, big choppers are a tad heavier, and I understand your concern for that... When backpacking, every single ounce counts.

But personally, if I want to save on weight, I'll get rid of other things first... Besides, depending on where you are, the big chopper will simply let you get rid of the Primus and fuel... Only that is worth the weight difference between the tweener and the big chopper.

Cheers

David