what are your fav washers..pros...cons.

V

Vermont woodsman

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Jan 22, 2005
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Just wondering what washers are your fav or the best in your opinion. Also why do most high end knives come with phosphor bronze?
 
I haven't worn out the washers on any of my knives, but if I could choose I'd probably go with phosphor bronze as I have had good experiences with the knives that use them and I would think they'd be more durable than plastic type washers. Hopefully someone will give us a good technical run down on the pros and cons of various washers. :)
 
Gosh there was some discussion about it back a few weeks.

Personally I think the best is PB.
 
I concur. PB has a low friction level, similar to that of teflon coated Nylon washers(I think I have heard that teflon has lower friction levels[-History Channel]). However, PB will not wear away like the teflon will. Knives with warn teflon washers can develop blade play, but I have read that Militec can add body to them.

I think it's just a production cost issue, eventhough I don't think the PB is much more expensive.
 
I like Nylatron the best, followed by phosphor bronze, with soft synthetics like Teflon washers way at the back of the list. Nylatron is an excellent compromise between the rigidity of a metal washer and the lubricity of a Teflon washer. In my opinion, the advantages of phosphor bronze as a washer material are vastly overstated. For example, claims of better reliability in hot environments. Nylatron can be used without compromise in ambient temperatures of up to 220 degrees Fahrenheit. It's certainly true, however, that phosphor bronze is capable of resisting more than that. They are also most definitely stiffer. They also exhibit significantly more friction against steel than any of the synthetics used, including Nylatron. They are more resistant to chemicals - strong acids and bases in particular - but when was the last time you went cutting something with your knife completely immersed in an HCL dilution or similar?

For me, Nylatron provides the best opening "feel," as well as being effectively maintenance free - i only have to worry about keeping the washer area free from dust and moisture. I never lubricate my knives with Nylatron washers. Use your own judgment for this question - there are material data sheets for Nylatron and phosphor bronze all over the Web. Don't let materials properties charts dupe you into declaring one material "superior" to the other, though - use them first, then decide based on how you like them. The only thing that washers in folding knives have to do is resist compressive forces and allow a smooth, unimpeded opening action for the blade. Even soft Teflon can do that for generations if it's thick enough. Bending forces - any force applied strong enough to bend the washers will also, almost certainly, warp the liners or crack the blade in half. Consider this as well - in the freak case where your washers do flex significantly, synthetics will pop right back into place, while phosphor bronze will take a set. The possibility of exerting any significant mechanical force against your washers (with the exception of compressive forces generated by the pivot screw) without exerting damaging forces on other components of your knife is almost nil.
 
If I had my 'druthers I would have pb washers on all my folders because of the way I tighten the pivots down. I like it TIGHT! I also like nylatron as it is less likely to deform in a tight pivot. The nylon/teflon washers probably work as well as the others but will tend to deform or even tear if the pivot is tighter than normal.
 
This topic pops up now and then and it is always interesting. I raised the issue last year just prior to one of the NY knife shows and then asked several of the makers at the show their reasons for using whatever washers they prefer.

The results were varied and interesting, but inconclusive--as the makers all seem to have valid reasons for their choices. Some--liked the overall integrity of bronze--stating that the machining for the precise tolerances required seem to indicate that their knives were extremely well put together.

Others, like well-known makers such as Bob Terzuola and Alan Elishewitz, use synthetic washers and swear by the results.

I personally have a slight bias in favor of PB, but I have some terrific knives with synthetic washers that have stood the test of time and usage.

Next weekend the ECCKS hits NY and I'll be there as usual. I'll do some more informal surveys of the makers and report back. I suspect the results will be as inconclusive as before, but it sure makes for some interesting chit-chat. ;)
 
Personally I prefer the PB washers, and if I were to make a knife I would use them (hopefully one of these days ;) ). But to be honest with some very big names, who make some excellent folders, using teflon it is hard to say. I have handled some excellent knives using all types of washers, and really would be hard pressed to pick the apart without taking the knife apart and checking.

I guess the only reason I prefer the PB is just that they seem to be more stable, from a purely phsycological standpoint anyway. I mean it is metal compared to plastic, which one seems stringer/better?
 
From a machinist's point of view it depends.

If the knife, when assembled, is not in perfect alignment with all key surfaces parallel, then nylon type washers will be best as they are very forgiving.

However for high quality work, PB washers, when broken it , will allow an effortless movement with no side play, as long as all surfaces are parallel and smooth.
 
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