What are your thoughts on lock back knives fit and finish? How about lock bar gaps?

crufflers

crufflers

Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
2,304
I think we all accept some level of minor up and down and sometimes side to side blade play or slop from a lockback like a BUCK or GEC, if we think about it at all. Going around wiggling all your blades might be kind of silly.

What about lock bar gaps? I see quite a few with a gap or daylight under the lockback lockbar... between the spring and the frame cutout. For example, on 72's and 21's.

Just acceptable Tidioute and Farm&Field character?
 
Some of my Buck 110's have a small lockbar/liner gap ... and/or a little proud at the lock end or somewhere to the release end ... not enough to notice when using the knife.
Since the lockbar does not rattle around, or affect how the knife feels in hand during short or long use, I don't worry about it.
I don't expect "perfection" in anything. (If I did, I would always be disappointed. 🙄)
Cosmetic quote-unquote "defects" don't bother me. Defects that affect functionality ... they bug me. Fortunitally, those are exceptionally rare.
 
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crufflers said:
I think we all accept some level of minor up and down and sometimes side to side blade play or slop from a lockback like a BUCK or GEC, if we think about it at all. Going around wiggling all your blades might be kind of silly.

What about lock bar gaps? I see quite a few with a gap or daylight under the lockback lockbar... between the spring and the frame cutout. For example, on 72's and 21's.

Just acceptable Tidioute and Farm&Field character?
Click to expand...
As a recovering blade wiggler, I've learned to accept some play in traditional patterns - both lockbacks and slipjoints.

I don't have a way to quantify it, but as long as there isn't "too much," I just stick them in my pocket and go about my business. I still wiggle from time to time (baby Jesus ain't done with me yet...), mostly to make sure that the play isn't rapidly worsening - if it is, I prefer to send it back to the manufacturer for repair sooner rather than later. I've only had to do that with one knife in the hoard.

As for gaps under the lockbar, they don't bother me in the slightest.
 
My feeling is that lockback play is not as bad as it seems on the internet since it’s human nature to complain when things are bad but rarely speak out when things are as they should be. I can’t remember the last time, if at all I’ve had lock rock on any of my lockback knives. I do remember a knife with a lock bar gap but that was totally inconsequential to me. Just one man’s opinion.
 
crufflers said:
What about lock bar gaps? I see quite a few with a gap or daylight under the lockback lockbar... between the spring and the frame cutout. For example, on 72's and 21's.
Click to expand...

In some cases, if the manufacture were to fit the liners tightly to the lockbar so as to eliminate daylight (a very very slight gap) on either side of the lockbar, the pressure to push the lockbar down to release the locking mechanism could be quite difficult. I had a #72 some years back that was very difficult to release the locking mechanism. A little judicious sanding of either side of the lockbar solved the problem.
 
A gap in the lock bar cutout is usually a flaw in my opinion but in some cases is clearly a design choice and doesn’t bother me. The Buck 110 doesn’t have a flush lockbar/cutout area but i think the design looks good.
Similar to how Ryuichi Kawamura doesn’t set his blades perfectly flush to the backspring. Usually I consider a flush blade/spring to be a baseline for high quality f&f but Ryu very purposefully sets his blades to not be flush and I rate his work second to none.
In general I think this forum is a bit too forgiving of lockbacks. I accept no blade play in any direction, no gaps, and the lock must neither be too easy nor too difficult to depress. But I’m a snob and my collection is almost all customs.
 
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Even very finely machined parts must have some clearance if they're going to move against each other. Pocketknife frames and lock bars are not finely machined surfaces. There have to be gaps, wiggle and other imperfections in order for them to work reliably under every day conditions.
 
I have seen seen a BUCK that has ABSOLUTELY ZERO play... today an hour ago. Mail call (Magnacut Web Stealth Run 112):

6f4Fm8Oh.jpg


So, even BUCK can do it apparently. I don't know what to think now.
 
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Tyson A Wright said:
The two lockbacks I carry are a Buck 110 and a Case Mini Copperlock. They both have zero play and are tightly assembled with no gaps. I don't know why I'd be interested in a lockback that wasn't correctly fitted, but everybody has different ideas of what works for them. 🤷‍♂️
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I hear that... I was used to moderns like USA Spyderco and ZT and even some Benchmade that had zero play, not to mention the rock solid TRI-AD locks. Going traditional to slip joints I figured I would just steer clear of liner lock and back locks from slip joint specialists like GEC... that's still not a bad way to go, but I can't pass up Bull Busters with a back lock, hahah. I couldn't even pass up those great looking 72's. I just had my favorite 23L Beaver out that snaps like a guillotine (and has play both ways). I hear you though.
 
I'm only showing this knife because the OP specifically asked about lockbacks. Please ignore the thumbstud and non-functional clip.

21490919411_edc189783b_b.jpg


This lockback does not have any horizontal or vertical play, and the fit and finish is impeccable. There is no gap between the lockbar and the frame cutout.

This spear #72 wasn't as well put together as the above knife, but I found no reason for complaint. It also was free of blade play, and didn't have a gap between the frame and lockbar.

12748378804_a2b1013dda_c.jpg


I think that variance is a fact of life with production knives, and some knives will be better constructed. You win some, you lose some.
 
In my experience, MOKI make the very best F&F Traditional lockbacks, total precision.

Some gaps are OK, minor play is alright (but welcome if it's absent) as I regard a lock as an added safety feature when cutting material like thicker plastics that can 'grab' a spring knife with unpleasant consequences. I'm not of the school that believes you can cut anything with a friction folder if you put your mind into it...I opt to put my mind elsewhere :)
 
I have a few Lock Backs and most of them are Northfields . The only problem that I have ever had was a Stag Northfield 83 that the lock would not release to un-lock . It was intended to be a gift but I kept it and worked with it enough to get it to eventually release properly . To me a little up and down play of the blade does not bother me as long as it stays locked when using .

Harry
 
Modoc ED said:
In some cases, if the manufacture were to fit the liners tightly to the lockbar so as to eliminate daylight (a very very slight gap) on either side of the lockbar, the pressure to push the lockbar down to release the locking mechanism could be quite difficult. I had a #72 some years back that was very difficult to release the locking mechanism. A little judicious sanding of either side of the lockbar solved the problem.
Click to expand...

I had the same problem with this Farm & Field #99.

DSC_0427.JPG

Knowing the problems that can be encountered with lockbacks, I asked the British importer of GEC knives to choose for me the knife with the tightest fit. I got what I asked for. Opening the knife, pressing the lockbar was painful. I solved the problem by using the slurry of a Belgian blue stone poured in the well. After a few hundred openings and closings I now have the smoothest walk and the loudest talk of all my knives. In my pocket since 10 years.
A good lockback is earned.

Dan.
 
I suppose I've been lucky, but I've had no issues with Case tribal locks, copperlocks (both sizes), and a mini blackhorn; a Schrade SP-1; Buck 112s and a 110; and even a cheap Rough Rider lockback.
 
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kamagong said:
I'm only showing this knife because the OP specifically asked about lockbacks. Please ignore the thumbstud and non-functional clip.

21490919411_edc189783b_b.jpg


This lockback does not have any horizontal or vertical play, and the fit and finish is impeccable. There is no gap between the lockbar and the frame cutout.
Click to expand...

Not a mystery why...that Spire was made by Moki.

Will Power said:
In my experience, MOKI make the very best F&F Traditional lockbacks, total precision.
Click to expand...

From my experience, the brand that most often has flawless fit and finish with no play or gaps is Moki. I have only seen one Moki that had a lock fit problem, and I have handled quite a few of them.
 
Will Power said:
In my experience, MOKI make the very best F&F Traditional lockbacks, total precision.
Click to expand...

lambertiana said:
Not a mystery why...that Spire was made by Moki.

From my experience, the brand that most often has flawless fit and finish with no play or gaps is Moki. I have only seen one Moki that had a lock fit problem, and I have handled quite a few of them.
Click to expand...

Right you two are. That Moki (WH branded) Spire is the sole old timey knife I own that approaches custom quality. I think its fit and finish exceeds my one Case/Bose collab, the Wharncliffe Trapper.
 
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One thing I notice with a few BUCKS is that they often have side to side play, but the up and down is different than other lock backs... when they do have up and down play, the blade moves and the whole backspring raises up and down as you move the blade, so that they seem to fit real well, however the spring is loose.

I need to try a MOKI. I am imagining they will be similar to a IC CUT / HIRO.
 
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