What credentials must I have to be a knife tester?

[golok]

I have read test results of knives by some acclaimed knife testers, if ever there is such a profession.

Seriously, besides those knife guilds and associations, are there a large number of independent knife testers? Meaning, their test results are held in high regard.

What makes these testers' findings credible?

How do you build up such a reputation? There are times when findings are disputed because the ground rules are vague or may even be deemed unfair.

So how do you come to the conclusion that a particular person's word on a particular knife is gospel truth?

 

[Cliff Stamp]

There is no agreement as to how reviews should be performed, many debates have taken place in the past. And even if there was some kind of ground rules, why would you feel you had to abide by them anyway. At a basic level, as a reader you are interested in trying to figure out how the knife will work for you. This obviously means different things to different people, thus which reviews are found to be informative is very person dependent.

At one extreme, are those, mainly makers and manufacturers, who argue that testing should be under their direction, to the extent that it is never even released to the public and under their control if so (editorial abilities). For such public presentation, the strengths of the knife should be focused on, with the weakpoints ignored, and no comparisons made to other knives and if done so, they should be general and very positive (eg. all of them are good knives).

My viewpoint is pretty much the direct opposite. I look for someone doing an evaluation not a promotional piece. It should contain work over a broad range of tasks showing the strengths and failings of the design. The end goal being not simply to state the performance, but hopefully to come to some understanding on its origin to allow the reader to make better blade choices. It should also show the performance in a meaningfull way, which for relative quantities means compared to something else.

-Cliff

 

[Sergiusz Mitin]

I have read test results of knives by some acclaimed knife testers, if ever there is such a profession

I think it is no such profession. I’m writer and for me so called knife test is the possibility to present this particular knife to readers pointing both advantages and drawbacks what could be important for them in daily knife use. Naturally I present what is important in my viewpoint, someone’s can be pretty different.

Seriously, besides those knife guilds and associations, are there a large number of independent knife testers?

I think all knife tests you have found here are more or less independent. I’ll try to explain this more or less. The tests published here are completely free of maker’s or manufacturer’s influence. However they are not free of tester’s preferences, likings, even fascination with this or that. Tester or I rather would say – reviewer – is human only...

What makes these testers' findings credible?

Common sense only, nothing more. If I would write that I have obtained objective (measurable) results proving that for ex. SPYDERCO knife outperformed BENCHMADE one 50 or 100 times – would you believe me?

How do you build up such a reputation? There are times when findings are disputed because the ground rules are vague or may even be deemed unfair.

This is the question of common sense and reviewer’s creditability. The reviewer may write what he or she likes or considers as important, useful etc, etc. You may believe reviewer or not believe, this is your right and certainly you shouldn’t give it up only because such person said something.

So how do you come to the conclusion that a particular person's word on a particular knife is gospel truth?

Hmm, did you see something like this here?
I didn’t but I maybe wrong or inattentive...

 

[mikemck]

I have wondered about this also. I mean let's face it, your average person really cannot 'test' a knife, in any meaningful way.

Someone like me for instance, can't really test a knife, because I have no idea what kind of stress I am creating, and have no measurable way to judge how close my testing is coming to making the knife fail, and I cannot therefore avoid such a level in the future. Therefore, my 'testing' is useless, even to myself. This hold true even when performing a particular task, because of quite tangible variables that come into play each time.

With that in mind, I would always be best served by doing no "testing" at all, and just
using my knives for real world tasks that I need done, and taking care of my knives to the best of my ability. The worst thing I can do is to fool myself into thinking I know what a particular knife is really capable of and then trying to validate that belief through some kind of halfbaked testing.

It would seem to me you would need a lab, with specific testing and measuring, and then a test/evaluation that eventually resulted in failure of the knife. However, even those results would not mean very much to anyone who has no way of correlating such results except in the broadest sense.
For example, laboratory testing has shown that such & such a knife can withstand X amount of stress before failing, which roughly equates to such & such a task for the actual user. What does that mean, really, even as it relates to the safety of doing such & such a task, and never mind a closely related task...all because the user has no way of tracking stresses with any degree of accuracy, except very roughly.

That makes sense to me, at least.

 

[mikemck]

I do of course realize that years of experience and real world use/abuse of knives and steels will allow some people to more accurately guage what a knife is capable of, as compared to someone like myself.

 

[Ron Andersen]

In one explanation given above, a stark dichotomy is drawn between the self-serving, marketing-driven manufacturers as pitted against the independent reviewers who are completely free to review with no ulterior motives.

What an over simplification that is based on strong error.

Firstly, not all makers and manufactures want to personally control tests for self serving purposes (I’m sure some do). It is very sad and unfortunate that this person has such a strongly jaded opinion of makers/manufacturers. I can attest that SOG does not wish to personally control a test (we have a long track record for this)! We work regularly with industry professionals. As long as the testing is done fairly, many maker/manufacturers would not complain against independent evaluation. For example: if a respected organization such as AKTI set up standards of testing and knife categories, then had well respected knife professionals perform evaluations, that would be hard for anyone to shun and could be good for the industry as a whole. This would be opposed to some “quack” doing back yard knife testing, trying to pull them off as serious. Don’t take this to say that anyone shouldn’t be able to “review” their knife...they should. But in all those reviews I’ve read, none have come across claiming to be “scientific.” It’s just a plain guy saying how he liked or disliked his knife.

Secondly, not all “independent” evaluators are free of personal bias or free of unfair ties to manufacturers/makers that could skew testing results; especially from a reviewer who is highly subjective (such as estimating pounds of force with one’s hands/arms rather than using standardized equipment for the task). In other words, their reviews can be quite tainted in the direction of a certain maker. And any reviewer wishing to be considered “fair,” should not be drawing conclusions in public about the knife he/she will review before taking possession of it.

Here in the forums, by reading in the reviews section, you’ll likely find much “heat” surrounding those reviewers who are most suspect of being a poor reviewer. Some speak with much “facts, figures, and science,” but when some well respected forum members have concerns with some “reviewers,” each of us need to weigh the truth of the review and separate it from the BS (like a college professor of mine once said “eat the meat and spit out the bones”). Conversely, there are some reviewers who are highly respected and their reviews are well received.

Back to your question regarding credentials. Here in the forums, it is really tough to know about the author of any certain writing/post. There are some big, well respected names here. People who write in major knife/gun/outdoor magazines around the world. There are also knife makers and knife manufacturer representatives. There are also military, LEO, EMT, etc. type professionals who can offer advices if that is what you need. But again, unfortunately , it might only come down to their word who they are.

I just advise caution and prudency.

 

[Sergiusz Mitin]

Mikemck,
I’m afraid you are narrowing test idea to destruction procedures only. I can agree with you as to such test reliability if they are performed in home conditions. Unfortunately strictly scientifically set up breaking test results are published by manufacturers pretty rarely. Please search Test section at www.fallkniven.com – this is pretty rare exception.

However breaking test data are quite interesting for me (of course if they are obtained the way I consider reliable and justified both scientifically and from common sense viewpoint) but no way they are essential or deciding. I would never base my decision choosing a knife on its destructive test data unless I have intentions to use it as prybar.

So I would propose to use the term review or evaluation instead of test to do not cause associations with knife breakage. I suppose Golok has somewhat wider conception of the test term in his question than primitive although scientifically set up disclosure of knife toughness limit.

The discussion who, why and which way should do such evaluations and how valuable they are for someone is endless and there are no proper answers for such questions. Looking onto this subject very, but really very simplified way I could say:

• Let someone, say Reviewer, who feels himself enough experienced and enough sensible to evaluate knife do what he or she considers correct and let he or she tell about this evaluation in the form he or she can.
• Let someone, say Reader, decide to believe Reviewer or to do not believe basing on the common sense, own experience, liking, mood, etc, etc. In another words – how Reviewer’s evaluation is valuable for Reader.

Honestly I do not see another way, do you?

 

[mikemck]

Originally posted by Sergiusz Mitin
Mikemck,
I’m afraid you are narrowing test idea to destruction procedures only.

Yes, you are exactly right. I realized that as I was reading the other posts. I don't why I focused in on toughness as the sole criteria for testing, but of course that's not even a consideration for some of the best knives out there, and is only a small portion of the overall measure of effectiveness of a any knife, especially for an urbanite like myself.

I can only say I just get wrapped up in all the hype about needing a knife that can pierce armor and cleave abrams tanks in half, and never mind that my main use for a knife is cutting open packages containing more knives

I guess the point I was making is that I need realize that my personal testing is pointless, and a knife should only ever be used for cutting, and never mind what you 'could' use it for.

If that makes any sense...

 

[Ron Andersen]

Just for the record, and I've said this before, I'm in support of testing a knife to destruction. But I echo Serg's sentiments:

However breaking test data are quite interesting for me (of course if they are obtained the way I consider reliable and justified both scientifically and from common sense viewpoint) but no way they are essential or deciding. I would never base my decision choosing a knife on its destructive test data unless I have intentions to use it as prybar.

If beating a knife on its flat side with a pipe has any real-world application, maybe it would for an unconventional golfer on the green right after yelling "fore!" Otherwise, I'm at a practical loss.

The testing needs to make sense. In car crash tests, there is a real science to it. They do head on, side impact, etc. type collisions to simulate real-world scenarios.

 

[T. Erdelyi]

Anyone that uses a knife everyday, as part of makin' a livin' is qualified to test. Send me a knife let me use it for a week or so, and I'll tell you what it's better suited in my field/line of work.
I tell you how well it holds, and takes an edge. I'll tell you if the blade holds up to extreme latteral forces, in the case of a folder, or a straight knife. I'll let you know how well the lock holds up.

Am I an Engineer like Cliff,(Cliff no slight or disrespect intended, I value, and respect your opinions, and look forward to your responses), no, but than I don't neccesarily need to be. Anyone that uses a knife for more than opening envelopes,(I'm sure there's even room for them to review/test knives intended for that purpose), has the ability to test knives. The real talent comes into play when that same person can relate their findings in an intelligent, unbiased, and interesting manner. You can be the best tester in the world but if no one can read or is interested in your results than what was the point.

Information is meant to be passed on, one of the things I liked about the knife community is it's willingness to pass on information. This forum is an excellent example of that. Whether it's collectors, makers, dealers, or people who are interested in the hobby, most of us are more than willing to share what we know.

So what are the qualifications to be a knife tester?
First, and foremost be a legitimate user.
Second, be able to convey your opinions in a clear, and intelligent manner.
Finally, be interesting, otherwise no one will want to read what you have to say.

As a final note, it has been brought to my attention that even as a collector you have the ability to test knives as far as what keeps best, what rust/tarnishes least, and what type of finish shows the least finger prints.

My Dad always told me,"you can always learn something from everybody"

(except my brother), just kidding Mike.

Peace,& Love, Forever

 

[Bobby B]

The most useful reviewer of any knife for you is you.
That failing (I know I haven't got the budget to test all the knives I'd like ), ask yourself:
"Self, what are you REALLY going to use the knife for?" We'd all love to think we'll use the knife for self-defence, jungle brush clearing, arctic survival, and haute cuisine , but the reality is we won't.
Read the posts in the Knife Exchange for sale, trade, whatever. How many say XXX knife NIB??? How many have unmarked blades, never even cut air (used to describe a Busse on E-Bay ). That seems to be the prevalent condition. We all have a few knives we actually use, often (not always) less expensive ones...
Are you really going to push your knife in regular use to the point of destruction? Well, that would make you a rare breed indeed. There are, of course, some who need that, but I think (MHO) that they are in the distinct minority.
Figure out what you will actually use the knife for, and base your opinion of the review on that.
There's my opinion, for what it's worth...
Rob

 

[Frank]

Originally posted by T. Erdelyi
The real talent comes into play when that same person can relate their findings in an intelligent, unbiased, and interesting manner. You can be the best tester in the world but if no one can read or is interested in your results than what was the point.

Exactly. Developing a base criterium for testing knives would be, at least for me, the easiest part. Writing the test results in an interesting and easy to read review is the challenge.

If you're interested in testing knives, why don't you write a couple of reviews of your favorite knives and post them in the review forum and see how they're received?

 

[Cliff Stamp]

T. Erdelyi :

[engineer]

...I don't neccesarily need to be

To offer quality information on how a knife performs, no. The more experience you have with that type of use, the more with knives in general, the more you know about steels etc., all of this will allow a better review, but doesn't of course guarantee it. Just be honest and open and experience will dictate the rest.

-Cliff