What cutting test/practice targets were used in Europe, historically?

G

gomipile

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Apr 17, 2010
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In Japan, one classic test cutting target is and was rolled wet rice straw mats. What test cutting targets were used historically in other parts of the world?
 
There is something called The Internet. It allows people to do their own research. Why do you think I'm the first out of 59 views to respond?


historically accurate lenticular apple-seed shaped edge having around 28° bevel angle, as observed on originals, would be robust enough to withstand the rigors of use of a Medieval battlefield, be sharp enough to cut, slice and thrust and safe enough for half-swording. There is no need for a sword having literal razor sharpness to cut, slice and stab through human bodies, bones, wooden poles, padded jacks and hardened leather - that kind of sentiment clearly comes from Japanese sword hype and movies. The question, whether European Medieval sword were sharp or not, can now be answered with YES, they were. Historical, archaeological and forensic evidence tell us so.
http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sh...actical-evidence-for-European-Sword-Sharpness
 
gadunz said:
There is something called The Internet. It allows people to do their own research. Why do you think I'm the first out of 59 views to respond?


historically accurate lenticular apple-seed shaped edge having around 28° bevel angle, as observed on originals, would be robust enough to withstand the rigors of use of a Medieval battlefield, be sharp enough to cut, slice and thrust and safe enough for half-swording. There is no need for a sword having literal razor sharpness to cut, slice and stab through human bodies, bones, wooden poles, padded jacks and hardened leather - that kind of sentiment clearly comes from Japanese sword hype and movies. The question, whether European Medieval sword were sharp or not, can now be answered with YES, they were. Historical, archaeological and forensic evidence tell us so.
http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sh...actical-evidence-for-European-Sword-Sharpness
Click to expand...

I did spend some time doing internet research on this, and you seem to be misunderstanding my question. I'm asking about cutting targets used in various places and times, especially Europe during and before the Renaissance. I didn't ask about the robustness or sharpness of European vs Japanese swords. I'm a particular fan of several European sword designs, such as Oakeshott type XVIa longswords and German langes messer and similar, several rapier designs, and some arming swords.

I have no bias at all against European swords, I just would like to know what sorts of cutting targets were used historically for training and testing in Europe in the same manner as rice mats were used in Japan. I skimmed the link you provided, and while it is interesting in and of itself, it doesn't seem to answer my question.
 
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I saw one reference to a Spanish (if I remember correctly) document from the Renaissance, where they made mention of testing swords/practicing by cutting wooden poles/sticks like small saplings.
 
Scrub cutting, so obvious, makes sense. If it can cut thru branches, it can cut thru flesh. Same demands as a good machete/billhook, just different shape.
 
gadunz said:
There is something called The Internet. It allows people to do their own research. Why do you think I'm the first out of 59 views to respond?


historically accurate lenticular apple-seed shaped edge having around 28° bevel angle, as observed on originals, would be robust enough to withstand the rigors of use of a Medieval battlefield, be sharp enough to cut, slice and thrust and safe enough for half-swording. There is no need for a sword having literal razor sharpness to cut, slice and stab through human bodies, bones, wooden poles, padded jacks and hardened leather - that kind of sentiment clearly comes from Japanese sword hype and movies. The question, whether European Medieval sword were sharp or not, can now be answered with YES, they were. Historical, archaeological and forensic evidence tell us so.
http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sh...actical-evidence-for-European-Sword-Sharpness
Click to expand...

Condescending, and non responsive to the OP's question.

So superior, much unhelpful...
 
There was a Victorian (I think) English "feat" of cutting that involved cutting a freestanding triangular lead bar with a saber. I've done it and it's not easy, and it makes you put together all the aspects of cutting (power, speed of delivery, control of end-of-cut and accuracy)
Note: i may have made my triangular lead bar a wee bit too big
 
J W Bensinger said:
There was a Victorian (I think) English "feat" of cutting that involved cutting a freestanding triangular lead bar with a saber. I've done it and it's not easy, and it makes you put together all the aspects of cutting (power, speed of delivery, control of end-of-cut and accuracy)
Note: i may have made my triangular lead bar a wee bit too big
Click to expand...

Yes, cutting into lead with specialized "lead cutter" swords.. Very broad and thick short sabres There was sheep cutting during the same period with regular sabres.

Cheers

GC

http://ejmas.com/jmanly/articles/2001/jmanlyart_wolf2_0801.htm
http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?99369-lead-cutters
 
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horseclover said:
Yes, cutting into lead with specialized "lead cutter" swords.. Very broad and thick short sabres There was sheep cutting during the same period with regular sabres.

Cheers

GC

http://ejmas.com/jmanly/articles/2001/jmanlyart_wolf2_0801.htm
http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?99369-lead-cutters
Click to expand...
I used that monstrosity of a kilij that I made twenty years ago-I pulled it off, but stopping a 34" saber blade whose POP is waaay out there is kinda tricky
In your link I saw that the molds for the bar exist...now I have a new grail thing to find.
I just pounded a triangular piece of poplar into the dirt and poured lead into the hole.
 
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