What decides how you personally use a knife? Steel or grind?

[Fixall]

The threads to select a blade steel and grind for this year’s Buck forum got me wondering about this.

What decides how you use a knife? The blade grind or the steel? Or do you just grab one and go at it?


Example:

A camp knife with .15" stock and a 4.5" blade. You have a choice of steel between 5160 and D2 (let's pretend cost and corrosion resistance are equal), and a choice of grind between a sabre grind and a full flat grind.

Personally, I tend to try to maximize and would go for 5160 with a sabre grind if I wanted a hard use camp knife, and D2 with a full flat grind if I wanted a light use/camp kitchen knife.

But what if your options were 5160 and a full flat grind or D2 with a sabre grind?

Would it be the steel or the grind that decides how you used the knife?

 

[BOSS1]

Unless it were a custom built 'to spec,' most of us will likely opt for an offering that most closely matches the intended use. There are so many knives out there to choose from these days, you should be able to get close to your preference in both grind and steel.

Beyond that I'm not too super snobby materials wise, as long as it quality from a reputable maker...but corrosion resistance will get the nod. Grind wise, unless it were something ver specific like a fillet Knife, generally I like a saber ground, drop point with a stout tip. Plenty of those outt here in just about any material.

It's an interesting perspective... I purposely obtain a knife to use as I prefer, so I pick the design and materials to suite my intended use..not the other way around.

Boss

 

[mutinousdoug]

I would use a flat grind for skinning and a sabre for boning regardless of steel

(within reason)​

. I tend to bang up a sharp knife around bone and then hack up the hide with a dull knife.

 

[NapalmCheese]

Back before I learned that saber grind knives can't slice, and that flat ground knives will roll or chip if you so much as wave them at a knotty piece of wood I did all of my camping chores with a Swiss Army Knife or a Buck lockback. Occasionally carrying a pilot survival knife for grins. I don't ever remember not doing any reasonable knife tasks for fear of the edge chipping, and I do remember slicing up lots of fish and making plenty of pointy sticks and getting plenty of fires going. Now that I'm educated more about knife steels and knife grinds I've learned that

1. Flat grinds can only slice and must be used for kitchen duties or cutting string
2. Saber grinds are only rough use knives can can't slice worth a hill of beans
3. 5160 is to be used for choppers and it's impossible to make a slicey finesse knife out of it
4. D2 is the minimum standard by which knife steels should be judged for sharpness, anything less than D2 can't get sharp and certainly won't stay that way

I wish I had never learned these truths because half of the stuff I did with my SAK, Buck knife, or pilot knife is now impossible (it wasn't then, but is now). I now know that if I try to clean a fish with my pilot knife I may as well use a river stone. If I try to carve a pointy stick with my SAK I may as well just break off the blade.

That being said, I'd opt for either steel in a full flat grind as my preference.

 

[Fixall]

Back before I learned that saber grind knives can't slice, and that flat ground knives will roll or chip if you so much as wave them at a knotty piece of wood I did all of my camping chores with a Swiss Army Knife or a Buck lockback. Occasionally carrying a pilot survival knife for grins. I don't ever remember not doing any reasonable knife tasks for fear of the edge chipping, and I do remember slicing up lots of fish and making plenty of pointy sticks and getting plenty of fires going. Now that I'm educated more about knife steels and knife grinds I've learned that

1. Flat grinds can only slice and must be used for kitchen duties or cutting string
2. Saber grinds are only rough use knives can can't slice worth a hill of beans
3. 5160 is to be used for choppers and it's impossible to make a slicey finesse knife out of it
4. D2 is the minimum standard by which knife steels should be judged for sharpness, anything less than D2 can't get sharp and certainly won't stay that way

I wish I had never learned these truths because half of the stuff I did with my SAK, Buck knife, or pilot knife is now impossible (it wasn't then, but is now). I now know that if I try to clean a fish with my pilot knife I may as well use a river stone. If I try to carve a pointy stick with my SAK I may as well just break off the blade.

That being said, I'd opt for either steel in a full flat grind as my preference.

Lmao!!! Fair enough.

I kind of look at optimizing the blade/steel as the same as ultra-light hikers who are trying to shave grams instead of ounces. Not for everyone, but of interest to some (but maybe that’s the post-op pain killers talking).

 

[NapalmCheese]

Lmao!!! Fair enough.

I kind of look at optimizing the blade/steel as the same as ultra-light hikers who are trying to shave grams instead of ounces. Not for everyone, but of interest to some (but maybe that’s the post-op pain killers talking).

I shaved weight by only carrying one knife at a time!

Also, I was younger and since being a weight weenie wasn't really a thing yet everything must have been lighter. Just for kicks the other day I busted out my old camping stove, this big blue thing that uses fairly large stove fuel canisters. It 'folds up' to be about a foot long and probably weighs two pounds. Compared to my MSR pocket rocket that thing is a beast. I used it at times when I couldn't have a fire. Wood was different back then too. I think wood gets wet faster or something because I never recall having a problem finding dry wood to get a fire started such that I'd have to resort to batoning a log. Likewise I never remember having to chop anything unless I felt like it. Seems back then I could find dry stuff to get a fire started and if a log was too big to fit in the fire pit and couldn't be broken by smacking it on a rock I just fed it into the fire slowly.

That being said, nowadays when I'm camping I still generally only bring one knife, and it's usually a SAK or whatever happened to be riding in my pocket that day. Grind and steel be damned, I'm going to use it for camping chores.

Even now in my decidedly middle age I'm learning things. I didn't realize flat and hollow grind knives are too fragile to open up deer sternums, and for the last 8 or so years I've been doing just that with a flat ground 8CR Kershaw or a hollow ground Buck 110. I'm probably going to have to get a custom made in some fancy steel now that I've learned those two knives are no longer up to the task.

Edit to add: even at my most weight conscious while alpine climbing I carried a SAK classic in my first aid kit and a multi tool with a knife blade so I could fix my crampons. You'd never see me pull some of the stuff serious ultra-light people do; I'm not camping anywhere with nothing more than a razor blade and an LED keychain flashlight.

 

[gadgetgeek]

I spend enough time on/around salt water that steel/corrosion resistance comes before grind. That being said, my two main fixed blades for non-water use are very similar in profile, and were bought for that, while the steels are different, that was a secondary consideration.

 

[Bob6794]

Blade geometry as a first priority. My Kai Luna blades are superior to quite a few of my family and friends kitchen knives in regards to performance not just from me sharpening and maintaining the edge. But also from the nice thin blade geometry these have, it makes it a pleasure to use and easy to sharpen.

 

[Rich Davis]

I would think the end user would take all of these into consideration. Corrosion isn't an issue for me as I don't live near salt water. My shiny carbon blades like my Mora get coated Renaissance Wax and they are as pristine as any stainless you could name. My favorite kitchen knife is this

Prices for that have skyrocketed since I bought it. It's thin of unknown carbon steel. It's not a cleaver, it's a slicer and it's dead simple to put an edge on it that is easily maintained that rivals any blade you can name. Gordon Ramsay? He has poor knife skills compared to Martin Yan who uses a slicer as well. But it was a $30 knife which means to me at least that form to meet function is the most important and that the overall design matters, with steel selection secondary in most cases.

 

[Steely_Gunz]

The idea of ultra specific knives/grinds/steels for outdoor use is never something I have ascribed to. Most of this has to do with the fact that I just never have the time or opportunity to just go get lost in the woods for fun.

For me, and this may just me being old fashioned, I actually prefer an easily repaired/maintained steel and grind in the field. I like one soft enough that a stone can fix and a grind that responds to stropping. For a belt/bush knife, I like a 4-5.5" blade out of a basic carbon steel sporting a flat-ish grind around .25" or less thick. Sharpened pry bars with brick-thick edges need not apply. I can get by pretty easily with that.

I find super steels to be pretty much unnecessary for my needs, and I find many of the bushcrafting staples like batonning to be over relied upon, generally. I do want a knife that is up to the task should it be needed, though.

 

[pinnah]

But what if your options were 5160 and a full flat grind or D2 with a sabre grind?

Would it be the steel or the grind that decides how you used the knife?

For EDC knives for me, it doesn't matter so much. I have my preferences to be sure (thin blades) but my EDC uses are so mild and pedestrian, I can live with most steels. Only ones I hate are soft gummy stainless that rolls an edge easily. My Case knives don't get carried much and I gave up on Victorinox for this reason.

For an outdoor knife, I think grind and steel go together. For hunting, I don't mind and even prefer carbide rich steels but also want a hollow grind for the meat cutting. For wood working sorts of things, I want a fine grained easy to sharpen steel and a (thin) convex blade (or saber grind that I can convex). Mixing these things don't make sense to me.

Of the options you listed, I would pick a flat ground 5160 fixed blade.

Also, I would rather clean game with a woods knife than process wood with a hunting knife.

 

[007Airman]

For edc I prefer a deep belly tanto of my own re-grind. The belly does very well at slicing while the intersecting edges of the tanto make a nice razor for general cutting. I like a slightly rounded tanto tip, that gives me a second slicing surface and the drop point is a great piercer.
The steel is not super important, I quit chasing the next super steel long ago.
http://imgur.com/zw6KGSR

 

[danbot]

No matter how you slice it, it's geometry that cuts. Steel choice may determine for how long it cuts before it needs to be sharpened and how easy/difficult resharpening will be, but if I'm having difficulty using a knife for a certain task, I would say I'm using the wrong tool for the job.

 

[bemymonkey]

Grind/Geometry is way higher on my priority list than the steel. I'm very much an EDC + food-prep user, with some carving thrown in every now and then. I mostly like thin and slicey, and as long as the steel gives me that for a decent amount of time and doesn't require wiping with oil once a day, I'm pretty much satisfied. Some of my favorite knives are 12C27 or 8Cr14MoV...

 

[SeppukuSamurai]

I will carry/purchase certain knives for certain things but it's usually the blade steel that is the deciding factor in my purchasing. I like to live as maintenance free as possible and unless it's something significant, whatever I carry usually gets the job done with or without a little improvisation.

 

[BD_01]

Unless I’m going to be on the water (where I cary a PacSalt in H1), grind trumps steel for me.

Also with regards specifically to folders, pivot mechanism makes a difference to how I use a knife. I’m fine with bearings for EDC and entertainment. Valid or not, if I’m doing food prep or out in the muck, I worry about crud finding its way into the bearing pockets. I’ll go with washers in those situations.

 

[Fixall]

So with the height and thickness of the blade being equal, and the cost and corrosion resistance not playing a factor... The majority would choose a knife for a job based on it's grind, rather than it's steel if you're not able to optimize them both.

 

[Steely_Gunz]

So with the height and thickness of the blade being equal, and the cost and corrosion resistance not playing a factor... The majority would choose a knife for a job based on it's grind, rather than it's steel if you're not able to optimize them both.

I would say this is pretty accurate for me. If a knife cuts, it cuts. I typically only prefer a thick convex on heavy specialty chopping blades like khukuris. A flat grind with good geometry will either handle what I need it to do or could at least be pressed into service. A lot of knife use is knowing your limitations. Let's say you find yourself stuck out 20 miles from civilization in the woods with nothing but a traditional Mora with fine Scandi grind. I would be totally happy with that. It means I have a very sharp knife that can do a lot of knifey things well at a trade off of not behaving like a hatchet. It would just mean that if I needed to split a piece of wood, I would need to get started with the Mora then use a hard piece of wood or a wedge shaped rock and another log to split it. Big deal. People have been using spitting wedges for eons. I would rather have fine edged Mora than try to do fine work with a heavily convexed axe in that situation.

For me, I like to live on both ends of the spectrum. I want a knife that can act like a knife. I want it to be easy enough to repair in the field at the trade off of requiring more maintenance during menial home use. Besides on-paper performance bragging rights, super steels don't do much for me. This is coming from a guy with PLENTY of super steel folders. However, I bought those knives because I liked the look or function of the geometry, not what they were made out of.

In an emergency situation, 1075 steel with a flat grind and an Arkansas stone in my pocket makes me feel much more warm and fuzzy than a high end super steel with a diamond hone. If I do something to bugger my 1075, chances are I can find a way to bang it back into a usable edge. If I dull up my super steel and I don't have a diamond to sharpening it, I'm not doing so hot.

However, this is all speculative, of course. Truth be told, I would rather have a 420 stainless leatherman in my pocket over a fixed blade knife of any kind should we be talking about pressing tools into service. There aren't many rudimentary tools I can't build with a Leatherman given the probable materials I would come across. Anyway, fun topic

 

[Fixall]

I would say this is pretty accurate for me. If a knife cuts, it cuts. I typically only prefer a thick convex on heavy specialty chopping blades like khukuris. A flat grind with good geometry will either handle what I need it to do or could at least be pressed into service. A lot of knife use is knowing your limitations. Let's say you find yourself stuck out 20 miles from civilization in the woods with nothing but a traditional Mora with fine Scandi grind. I would be totally happy with that. It means I have a very sharp knife that can do a lot of knifey things well at a trade off of not behaving like a hatchet. It would just mean that if I needed to split a piece of wood, I would need to get started with the Mora then use a hard piece of wood or a wedge shaped rock and another log to split it. Big deal. People have been using spitting wedges for eons. I would rather have fine edged Mora than try to do fine work with a heavily convexed axe in that situation.

For me, I like to live on both ends of the spectrum. I want a knife that can act like a knife. I want it to be easy enough to repair in the field at the trade off of requiring more maintenance during menial home use. Besides on-paper performance bragging rights, super steels don't do much for me. This is coming from a guy with PLENTY of super steel folders. However, I bought those knives because I liked the look or function of the geometry, not what they were made out of.

In an emergency situation, 1075 steel with a flat grind and an Arkansas stone in my pocket makes me feel much more warm and fuzzy than a high end super steel with a diamond hone. If I do something to bugger my 1075, chances are I can find a way to bang it back into a usable edge. If I dull up my super steel and I don't have a diamond to sharpening it, I'm not doing so hot.

However, this is all speculative, of course. Truth be told, I would rather have a 420 stainless leatherman in my pocket over a fixed blade knife of any kind should we be talking about pressing tools into service. There aren't many rudimentary tools I can't build with a Leatherman given the probable materials I would come across. Anyway, fun topic

We’re of a like mind. When I’m hiking or camping with just a pack, I am typically carrying something like a Mora Garberg Carbon or Becker BK62 as my main knife with SAK Huntsman and sometimes my Leatherman Charge TTi as my backups. All bets are off when I’m car camping though as I tend to bring an assortment of fixed blades to play with.

I spend six to eight weeks a year on overnight camp outs (probably a drop in the bucket compared to some of you) and I still haven’t found much use for batoning with a knife. It can be fun to find out what a knife can do though.

This was just for fun though. I was curious as to what a group of enthusiasts who are used to being able to optimize would value more.