What defines a self-defense/combat knife?

A

Angelus1781

Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
702
Reading a past article in "Knives" and reading a few posts on here made me think about this. What really defines a combat or knife for self defense knife? Couldn't any knife be used if you needed to defend yourself? One of the writers in "Knives" said something like "A tactical knife is one that performs everything you want it to..whether it be self defense, or utlity"

So what do you think? Certain specs for self defense, or just a good knife in general for this application?
 
Mind set. My EDC roller ball pen is a pen, but I know I could defend myself with it. Same with a knife.
 
On the most basic level, it has to have a decently sharp point, preferably dropped or clipped to center it. That way, if you have to you can stick it into someone. So wharncliffes are out.
 
knife: Chinook II made by Spyderco, avail at newgraham discounted. Sure, there are other choices, bigger, etc. After 5 yrs in the Marines a long time ago, I just happen to like the Chinook.

designed by: http://www.jamesakeating.com/

just my opinion,
og
 
Angelus1781 said:
Reading a past article in "Knives" and reading a few posts on here made me think about this. What really defines a combat or knife for self defense knife? Couldn't any knife be used if you needed to defend yourself? One of the writers in "Knives" said something like "A tactical knife is one that performs everything you want it to..whether it be self defense, or utlity"

So what do you think? Certain specs for self defense, or just a good knife in general for this application?
Click to expand...

Good knife in general for this application, not certain specs.

For many categories that we block off using particular terms (e.g., "tactical knife". "combat knife"), the conceptual boundaries are fuzzy. This is a feature of language and human thought in general -- anyone ever read Wittgenstein's discussion of the term "game"? I bring this up because a lot of people start howling when it becomes very difficult to concisely define a term that refers to a reasonably complex category, and point to the difficult in a concise definition as "proof" that the term itself is meaningless. That's not necessarily the case -- just as often, it's just a complex category that defies simple, clear definition. Meanwhile, people can use the term and at least vaguely get their meaning across, so it's clear the term can be useful.

Defining combat knife as "a knife that can handle self defense, or hard utility use" leaves a whole lot of open territory, but it's probably as close as you can come to a core definition. Once you start probing the conceptual boundaries, you find exceptions all over the place. Look at Will P's definition, for example -- a huge number of knives that are generall accepted as fitting the combat description, wouldn't meet his. And what about when people say something like, "Is the Wegner folder suitable as a tactical knife"? Well, the Wegner can handle self defense and suitably hard utility use -- shouldn't it be considered a tactical knife right there? The question itself seems to shift the burden of the meaning of "tactical" from something that describes a knife, to something involved in a particular type of useage. But then you see people calling something a "tactical knife" again, which shifts the burden back.

Anyway, enough rambling, but these kinds of questions often lead to a lot of navel contemplating.

Joe
 
I've heard it said, the best knife for self defence is the one
you have with you when you need it.
I would say its all personal prefrence, fixed blades or folders will work
well if thats what you train with. ;)
 
Angelus1781 said:
Reading a past article in "Knives" and reading a few posts on here made me think about this. What really defines a combat or knife for self defense knife? Couldn't any knife be used if you needed to defend yourself? One of the writers in "Knives" said something like "A tactical knife is one that performs everything you want it to..whether it be self defense, or utlity"

So what do you think? Certain specs for self defense, or just a good knife in general for this application?
Click to expand...


Well, the ability to be better at SD than utility, but are usually defined as dirks, daggers and switchblades. (i'm not flamin' autos, I love em')
 
I would think that the best knife for self defense is the one that you train with for that purpose. Keep in mind that in a situation where you would be pulling a knife, or gun for that matter, to defend yourself you will be under plenty of stress. You need to be able to pull out that knife, get it open and in a good position for use without even thinking about it. To me that means something that you have trained with and become very intimate with.

It would also have to be something that you are very comfortable with, because you will need to be carrying it at all times. It also needs to fit in well with how you are dressed. A neck knife that is under a winter coat, a sweater, a button up shirt and a t-shirt won't do you much good for SD. By the time you could get to it the altercation would be over.

I don't carry a knife for SD, but to me it would seem that the deciding factor is really training. Just about any knife can be used succesfully for SD, but it is the skill of the person that will give it that ability. A knife is ultimately just a hunk of steel, no matter how good it is it can't defend you from attack.
 
Practical Use said:
Mind set. My EDC roller ball pen is a pen, but I know I could defend myself with it. Same with a knife.
Click to expand...


I knew someone who was on a long car trip and stopped at one of the roadside rest areas to use the john. As he was zipping up his pants two low lifes came in and one watched the door while the other brandished a knife and told him to hand over his wallet.

The intended victim very deliberatly takes out a large Case sodbuster and asks the punk how bad he wants to get sliced up to get it.

They got out of his way and he walked out of there.

In that case the Case was what he had.
 
I think that if properly trained, the use of a Karambit could be the most effective self defense edged tool available. Anyone remeber a few years back when there was a company trying to sell 6" black "sticks" or "rods" that attached to a keychain and could be used to break an assailants grip with twisting and manipulation of the wrist? Imagine those same techniques but with a Karambit instead of the self defense "stick."

http://home.rica.net/hebiashi/biz/sdkey.htm
 
I mightbe just blurbing but fir me SD knife is one that i feel comfortable with while holding it in my hand, comfortable enough that i wouldn't mind going with it 1-on-1 with a dog/wolf (OK, reuglar dog, none of those cattle-like "dogge" that'd swalow whole goddamn blade and chew me up for dinner. If i don't mind going 1-on-1 with wolf with one i most certainly wouldn't mind using one on human, if i was striking first. If you end up on the recieving end (of punches or whatever) no knife will save your butt because there's simply no time time to think about it, no matter how "tactical" it looks or how "tactical" its name sounds. Knife that fits my hand well and is really nice (relatively heavy compared to other stuff i own but well balanced and perfect length) is my favorite knife (check my profile info). The key part however is whether you're willing to use it and whether you know what to do with it.
 
For me a combat knife should possess neutral balance, a narrow blade profile, and a point suitable for stabbing.
 
A bowie possesses qualities one would consider tactical - it does not have to be black in color. Take a look at one and observe the differences between it and other knives.
 
"The fighting knife, properly designed for that job, is not an all-purpose edged tool. A high point or a low point, weight forward, single or eliminated guard, more curve in the edge, less weight, and thin blade are all desirable in a working knife. So if you come across a long knife with a straight clip blade, sharp false edge, thick spine, and double guards, and it sits up in your hand looking for a place to poke, it's a fighting knife."

Ken Warner.

Or you could buy a good Gerber Mark II. :)
 
Must point out the obvious:

A combat knife is a knife you use in a fight.

A SD knife is a knife you use to defend yourself when imposed upon.

Any knife can be either.

That being said, knives can be designed with certain application in mind, including combat and SD.

For a good combat/SD knife, I like a relatively short (4 inch is ideal, due to legality), thick blade with a large handle to expose some punho (butt end of handle). Fixed blade a must. Easy to conceal, but more importantly, easy to carry in a way to allow for a quick draw.

Chuckbuck : I hear the karambit thing. Imagine one of those sticks (kubatons) being driven into you throat, temple, or eye socket (they really are for hitting pressure points). Now picture that with a karambit. Also, they are much harder to disarm with standard disarm techniques.
 
A lot of good comments. Some comments on the comments:

"A combat knife is a knife you use in a fight". Not true ... the term "combat knife" is much more commonly used to define a knife that a combat soldier might use. First use is hard-use utility, prying, digging, etc., but still suitable for use as a defensive blade. The common term for a knife meant only for use against another person is a "fighting knife".

A combat knife is "the knife you have with you when you need it." Good mindset, but not the way the term is commonly used. On my desk I have a can of pepsi sitting on a stack of paper -- but a can of pepsi is not a paperweight, even though I can use it as one, in a pinch. If I walked into a grocery store and pointed to the pepsi rack and said, "Man! Look at all those paperweight!", I'd get some strange looks, and rightfully so. An SAK isn't a combat knife, either (at least according to the way the term is commonly used), although it can be used for some "combat knife" roles.

I think that if properly trained, the use of a Karambit could be the most effective self defense edged tool available. *cough* *hack*
:)

Joe
 
I think one of the better examples of a purpose built SD/fighting knife is the Kasper designed Polkowski/crkt. This 35.00 dollar knife incorperates what Bob Kasper considers to be the important aspects of a knife employed in his specific and trained manner for self defense. The handle is shaped to facilitate a specific grip, that grip is effective for employing the sorts of attacks that Kasper feels are most effective. The blade shape facilitates the same thing, pointy with false edge/swedge but with belly for slashing. Efven the carry method (at least on the custom version) is to achieve a balance of concealment and deployability putting the handle in the right place for correct and secure grip as well as quick transition from draw to attack.

I think many of the knives designed by self defense instructors opitimize the design characteristics of a tactical/defensive knife. Of course they look dramatically different from one another because of the varied tactics proffessed by these folks.
Sure any knife or any object at all can be used as a weapon however if you carry a knife as a weapon it makes sense to me to carry what best fits your training and personal preferences.
If I am skinning an animal I want a knife designed for that purpose. Sure if I had to I could use a commando knife but that is a tool designed to fill a different function, just as I wouldn't choose a Moran featherweight as a weapon.

Long, sorry ya'lln
 
Joe Talmadge said:
A lot of good comments. Some comments on the comments:

"A combat knife is a knife you use in a fight". Not true ... the term "combat knife" is much more commonly used to define a knife that a combat soldier might use. First use is hard-use utility, prying, digging, etc., but still suitable for use as a defensive blade. The common term for a knife meant only for use against another person is a "fighting knife".

A combat knife is "the knife you have with you when you need it." Good mindset, but not the way the term is commonly used. On my desk I have a can of pepsi sitting on a stack of paper -- but a can of pepsi is not a paperweight, even though I can use it as one, in a pinch. If I walked into a grocery store and pointed to the pepsi rack and said, "Man! Look at all those paperweight!", I'd get some strange looks, and rightfully so. An SAK isn't a combat knife, either (at least according to the way the term is commonly used), although it can be used for some "combat knife" roles.

I think that if properly trained, the use of a Karambit could be the most effective self defense edged tool available. *cough* *hack*
:)

Joe
Click to expand...

Common sense at it's finest! My Nimravus is a combat-utility knife - very good for utility, and very good potential as a combat knife. It took some regrinding, but that point is pretty wicked now. I respectfully disagree with Mr. Linton about the double guard - I'm never going to be fencing with the knife. The Greco Whisper is pretty much pure fighter, and does a good job at utility too.

Fighting knives, and indeed any knives not used for chopping, benefit from neutral or handle heavy balance.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top