what diamond plates to buy for s110v PM2 and Shun classic kitchen knives?

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kvg33k

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Nov 13, 2017
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Current knives that need sharpening are a Spyderco PM2 in s110v and some shun classic kitchen knives.

I've read that for the s110v, I really should use diamond plates if I don't want to spend hours on it.

I'm looking at getting some dmt diasharp plates. What grits do I really need? I've seem some videos where guys literally step through every grit they sell, and the move on to stropping with a half-dozen different strops down to tiny fractions of a micron. That seems like total overkill. I'm interested in lasting performance, not demonstrations of whittling hair that will cease to be relevant as soon as I actually use my knives. When I bought my PM2 it would cut me if i just touched the blade slightly too hard. That's no longer the case.

These are the plates DMT is selling:
Extra-Extra Coarse (120/120 micron)
Extra-Coarse (220/60micron)
Coarse (325/45 micron)
Fine (600/25 micron)
Extra-Fine (1200/9 micron)
Extra-Extra Fine (8000/3 micron)

Should I start with Coarse, Fine, and Extra-Fine? My PM2 doesn't have any damage and is still relatively sharp. My Shuns are all really dull. My shun 6" utility chef's has a chip about 1mm deep and 2 have broken tips (used to be in a very small kitchen with no counter space that resulted in them falling). Will i need an extra-extra coarse to repair the chipped shuns and the ones with broken tips?

Yes, I could get every single plate, but that seems excessive. What would be the most cost-effective combination? Any recommendations for stropping?

Thanks
 
I wouldn't put Shuns on diamond plates unless your experienced using water stones and knowing on how Japanese knives should be sharpened. I would look at atoma plates they don't go as fine but I like them over DMT. I would probably do extra coarse, fine and extra fine if you're going to get the DMTs
 
I would personally not want to use diamonds on my Shun knives. I prefer water stones for that steel (VG-10 or VG-MAX depending on how old the knives are).

For broken tips, it is usually recommended to modify the spine and bring it down to meet the edge, rather than try to bring the edge up to meet the spine. You might benefit from a coarse stone for the major repair but I would still prefer something with a different scratch pattern than an XXC diamond. Maybe even a Norton Crystolon silcon carbide stone for that, though there are coarse water stones that are quite effective too.
 
Well, it depends. If you only need to sharpen it (no reprofiling) you can go with 600, 1200 and 8000 stones. For reprofiling, chip removing, you will need something like 120-220 grit and lots of patience :) I personally would use the belt sander for that. I prefer ATOMA over DMT. Looks like they last longer and the scratch pattern is a little bit more uniform. I have bought two Atomas( 1200 and 140grit), later I got 400 and 600 replacement plates and stuck them on the bottom side of the 1200 and 140 stones. This way I have two plates with 4 different grits. Since it looks like you going after aggressive edge, any hard leather strop will do.
 
Ok. So maybe change plans a little. What if I get the Atoma 120 for heavy work like reprofiling and getting rid of chips, maybe a 400 or 600 Atoma as a coarse stone (which?), 1200 as a middle stone, and then maybe water stone or two for finishing? Maybe at 2000 and 8000? Theory being I can get the big work done on the diamond and then develop a more refined edge by finishing with more traditional stones.

Also any thoughts on the best type of stones to get to compliment the Atoma plates? Again, I'm looking to have one set of stones to start at this point. Don't want to buy two separate sets of stones to handle the powdered steels and the Shuns (mine are VG-10).

Thanks in advance.
 
If you insist on one set only, Extra fine DMT & Extra Extra Fine will be middle ground for both. That if you’re not looking at reprofiling. My experience with VG10 from Spyderco, many said softer than Shun, EF and EEF will do.

For reprofile, I’d say go Coarse or Extra Coarse. Otherwise it’s taking very long.

Using Diamond, very light touch is required.

I use DMT Credit Cards, C, F, EF and DMT diafold EF/EEF.

From my own experience with Manix 2 S110V and Endura VG10, following factory bevel (not reprofile), the EF & EEF is sufficient.
 
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^^ There are too many options making it hard to decide. I was watching youtube videos and one guy was doing the heavy work with an Atoma 140 for the reprofiling/chip repair, and then moving on to stones. I kind of like the idea of that but he was using softer steels (VG-10 was probably the hardest thing he used), nothing like S110V, which i've read repeatedly really needs diamond. I've read that the diamond really marks up the softer steels...

Is there a good compromise here or am I inevitably going to be unhappy and end up buying both a full set of diamond and a full set of wet stones to deal with the very different steels?
 
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One strategy is to use higher grit for softer steel. For example, if S110V reprofile requires 325 grit (C), a simple carbon steel might be better off starting at 1200 (EF). It is true that diamond leaves deeper scratches so going higher grit helps.

JC post on this thread has useful points
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...ou-not-use-diamond-stones-on-and-why.1532678/

One needs to experiment to find out if diamond is suitable as it is the combination of stone, steel - HT, geometry and pressure determines the result, and use case determine if the result is satisfactory. The key is ‘satisfactory’. The result might be better and more optimum with the correct stone, but stone is only one factor out of the many mentioned, therefore the strategy mentioned as workaround. It might not be optimum but adequate, at the end of the day, it’s subjective.

Another solution is to try the washboard. The supplied abrasive might work for a wide range of steel and the new compound contains diamond enough to work with higher vanadium steel. www.washboardsharpening.com.

If in doubt, you can send HeavyHanded the PM2 S110V for him to evaluate how effective the washboard for it, which will also result in very sharp edge returning from him. (Note: this is purely my thoughts as I don’t know if he’s going to make the arrangement as such)
 
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S110V needs diamond because of the carbides in the steel. Typical aluminium oxide doesn't cut carbide therefore it is difficult to put a fine edge on a super steel without using diamond. VG10 will sharpen on anything. I would suggest for S110V get the DMT extra coarse, coarse, and fine. Several people say to stop at coarse but personally I prefer stopping at fine. For the shun knives I really like shapton pro stones and I use them all the time. They are a little more of an investment but if you get the 320, 1000, and 5000 stones you will put a wonderful edge on your shuns.
 
Looking at prices online and I think I can stomach some more stones.

So! I think I'm going to get Atoma 140,400 or 600, and maybe 1200 for the S110V.

2 Questions on the diamond: 1) I'm reading some people saying they don't take S110V beyond 400-600 and that the steel likes to be toothy. Is there any real benefit to going up to 1200 on that sort of steel? 2) Should I get the 400 or the 600 atoma plate? What would be more useful overall, both in terms of sharpening S110V and other uses including maybe flattening other stones. 400 seems super coarse to finish at so maybe I should lean towards the 600? Or should I get those two and forgo the 1200?

For the shuns, I'll think I'll go with Shapton Pros. 320/1000/5000.
 
I like s110v with around 2000grit finish or 1200 with some stroping. s110v likes coarser finish, but not stupid coarse ( in my personal experience). Remember that 1200 diamond will leave a much coarser finish than 1k Naniwa for example. Also if you will have a set of diamond plates, there is no reason for 320 shapton. 1k shapton is coarse enough for general sharpening and even for fixing some small chipping. Shuns runs around HRC61+ so don't think that diamonds will run through it like butter. Using your diamond plates for hard work and finishing with shaptons is a nice practical idea. 400 Atoma is very nice for stone flattening.
 
Out of curiosity what are you using for 2000 grit on s110v? Atoma maxes at 1200 and DMT doesn't have a 2000 grit AFAIK. Are you using something other than diamond at that point?

Given your suggestions, it becomes.

Atoma 140, 400, 1200
Shapton Pro 1k,5k

Also think I'm going to add a Richmond Balsa wood & bovine leather strop + 1 micron diamond paste from CKTG to top things off.
 
From my personal experience, I can tell you that I use 600 the least. 140 and 400 for repair, reprofiling and flattening. 1200 for general sharpening and flattening of high grit stones. 600 is not coarse enough for heavy work, but a little bit to fine for stone flattening. Well at least for my style.
 
I don't have anything in S110v, so can't speak to that steel. For other high carbide steels, including M390, I never do anything in 600 grit range. I go straight from something coarse 300-range, up to DMT EF or Ultrasharp EF around 1200. I do find that the EF, at least on M390, helps to finish and makes the edge perform noticeably better in a variety of home sharpness tests, even though I can get the blade sharp enough to shave arm hair on the coarse stone.
 
kvg33k said:
Out of curiosity what are you using for 2000 grit on s110v? Atoma maxes at 1200 and DMT doesn't have a 2000 grit AFAIK. Are you using something other than diamond at that point?

Given your suggestions, it becomes.

Atoma 140, 400, 1200
Shapton Pro 1k,5k

Also think I'm going to add a Richmond Balsa wood & bovine leather strop + 1 micron diamond paste from CKTG to top things off.
Click to expand...

After 1200 atoma I can step up to shapton 2k or 7/5 micron venev. Don't take my suggestions as absolute truth. Everyone has his own style. There are so many recepies to reach the same result.
As for the stroping compound, I would consider something coarser 1 micron( for s110v).5k Shapton with some stropping will give you a very nice polished edge, yet with enough bite.
 
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^^ I haven't really done any reading on stropping compounds yet. I just saw a kit on CKTG that included the paste with a couple strops. Not super concerned about that stuff at this point. I think I have enough to get started with.... It's funny. I bought a $200 knife and now I need hundreds of dollars worth of equipment to maintain it. But these aren't the last knives I'll buy and the stones will probably last me a lifetime given that I'm not a high-volume sharpener.
 
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