What did I do wrong?

H

Hilldogo88

Joined
Dec 16, 2020
Messages
8
Hello everyone, I’m new here and I’m new to making knives. My dad recently passed and I needed something to throw my time into and I slowly chose this by just making a new handle for a knife. I’m all in now but I’m a little discouraged from my first build. I chose a rusty old disk to a plow. I drew it out, cut it out and got it down to about 80% finished then I heat treated. everything appeared to go smooth. After heat treating i got it to about 98% finished when I realized the very tip of my knife seem to have a bur on it. Turns out it wasn’t a bur it was bent a little. Then I started checking it. I can stick my finger nail into the tip and it bends over. I went about an eighth of an inch down the tip and I can put a dent in the tip of the blade (wasn’t sharpened yet) with my finger nail. Is the steel not high carbon? I don’t think it was my heat treating because like I said I thought it went very well and I followed all directions from a handful of people I follow on YouTube. I know I can’t expect to nail it on the first try but I just assumed since it was a disc from a plow that it had to be hard steel. Please help...
 
Hello Hilldogo88. Welcome to the addiction
Hilldogo88 said:
I just assumed since it was a disc from a plow that it had to be hard steel.
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This could be part of the answer to your title question.
Hilldogo88 said:
I don’t think it was my heat treating because like I said I thought it went very well
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This doesn't give us much information to go on. Could you go into a bit more detail on what exactly you did?
 
Sorry, yes. As far as heat treating- I heated it in a mini forge to glowing red and it wasn’t magnetic at that point. I quenched it in 120 degree canola oil which I held it in the oil for 18-20 seconds. I then put it in a toaster oven almost immediately after the quench. I did 2- 2 hour cycles, 4 hours total. The temp was 410- 415. After each cycle I cooled it in cold water until I could touch it. Other than that I just tried keeping it cool while finishing the blade, after the heat treatment. I do realize I did not know what kind of steel it was so my times and temperatures could have been the problem but I read a couple forums about mystery steel and a temperature that should work.
 
lesson #1 Do not use unknown variables.
Lesson #2 It will take you much longer to become proficient knifemaker if you waste time using inferior materials and tools.
 
1 Do a spark test on the steel. It won't tell you what steel it is but may show you something useful.

2. Does a file skate?

3. Did you do any post heat treat grinding? Its very easy to burn the tip and blow out the temper

4. Did you have a thermometer in the toaster oven or did you trust the crappy dial?

5, if the knife was a first attempt chuck it up in a vise and snap it or see if it takes a set.

 
Hilldogo88 said:
Sorry, yes. As far as heat treating- I heated it in a mini forge to glowing red and it wasn’t magnetic at that point. I quenched it in 120 degree canola oil which I held it in the oil for 18-20 seconds. I then put it in a toaster oven almost immediately after the quench. I did 2- 2 hour cycles, 4 hours total. The temp was 410- 415. After each cycle I cooled it in cold water until I could touch it. Other than that I just tried keeping it cool while finishing the blade, after the heat treatment. I do realize I did not know what kind of steel it was so my times and temperatures could have been the problem but I read a couple forums about mystery steel and a temperature that should work.
Click to expand...
AVigil said:
lesson #1 Do not use unknown variables.
Lesson #2 It will take you much longer to become proficient knifemaker if you waste time using inferior materials and tools.
Click to expand...
i understand that. The only reason I did is because my dad got these from some guy right before he passed. I was trying to make something out of them. I totally understand that now though, now that I’ve gotten into it more.
 
scott kozub said:
1 Do a spark test on the steel. It won't tell you what steel it is but may show you something useful.

2. Does a file skate?

3. Did you do any post heat treat grinding? Its very easy to burn the tip and blow out the temper

4. Did you have a thermometer in the toaster oven or did you trust the crappy dial?

5, if the knife was a first attempt chuck it up in a vise and snap it or see if it takes a set.

Click to expand...
Thank you
 
Hilldog - I’ll take a slightly different interpretation on your story. You learned a heck of a lot! You took a piece of steel, shaped it to be a knife, took your first stab at grinding and heat treating, ... and so now you know how that goes and how to run the process. Congratulations! Next time it will feel much more familiar, and go even smoother. Cool!

(Sorry, sorry, sorry about your dad. Don’t forget to take care of yourself at this time....)
 
First off, welcome to shop talk, and I'm sorry for your loss. I can understand wanting to use the disc if it has some sentimental attachment to your father.

First thing I would do is take a small "coupon" of the steel and heat treat that by itself. A smaller piece will be far more manageable, especially in a mini forge, and it will give you a better idea of how effective your heat treat will be. Heat to a little bit past non-magnetic. Your looking for bright red. If you can dim the lights around your forge, or do it later in the evening, you might get a better idea of where your color is. FYI, table salt also melts right around 1470F IIRC, if you want a sanity check. You can also get a PID and a K type thermocouple if you want to monitor your forge temp more accurately.

If basing your temp solely off of a magnet, make sure you're using a decently strong magnet, and as soon as it stops sticking, heat it a little bit more.

When you quench your steel, make sure you're moving it back and forth or up and down (edge to spine, not side to side) to agitate your quench oil and reduce any vapor jacket. After quench, run a file along the edge of the steel and see if it skates or bites. You can also try sticking it in a vise and whacking it with a hammer. If i breaks, congrats, you hardened it. If it bends and takes a set, well, the steel either didn't get hot enough, it didn't cool fast enough, or it's just not a high carbon steel.

Also, try to quench as soon as you can after removing it from the heat.
 
BTW, fill out your profile so we know where you're located. Chances are there's a maker or two in your area that might be willing to show you a couple things or even give you a piece of decent steel to practice on.
 
One thing I see that could be an issue is you said you put the blade in the temper oven "almost Immediately" after the quench. The steel needs to reach room temperature for the martensite conversion to finish before you temper it. If you put it in the temper at, say 200°F, it would still be partially austenite.
 
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Cushing H. said:
Hilldog - I’ll take a slightly different interpretation on your story. You learned a heck of a lot! You took a piece of steel, shaped it to be a knife, took your first stab at grinding and heat treating, ... and so now you know how that goes and how to run the process. Congratulations! Next time it will feel much more familiar, and go even smoother. Cool!

(Sorry, sorry, sorry about your dad. Don’t forget to take care of yourself at this time....)
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Absolutely true! lol thanks for your response.
 
Drew Riley said:
First off, welcome to shop talk, and I'm sorry for your loss. I can understand wanting to use the disc if it has some sentimental attachment to your father.

First thing I would do is take a small "coupon" of the steel and heat treat that by itself. A smaller piece will be far more manageable, especially in a mini forge, and it will give you a better idea of how effective your heat treat will be. Heat to a little bit past non-magnetic. Your looking for bright red. If you can dim the lights around your forge, or do it later in the evening, you might get a better idea of where your color is. FYI, table salt also melts right around 1470F IIRC, if you want a sanity check. You can also get a PID and a K type thermocouple if you want to monitor your forge temp more accurately.

If basing your temp solely off of a magnet, make sure you're using a decently strong magnet, and as soon as it stops sticking, heat it a little bit more.

When you quench your steel, make sure you're moving it back and forth or up and down (edge to spine, not side to side) to agitate your quench oil and reduce any vapor jacket. After quench, run a file along the edge of the steel and see if it skates or bites. You can also try sticking it in a vise and whacking it with a hammer. If i breaks, congrats, you hardened it. If it bends and takes a set, well, the steel either didn't get hot enough, it didn't cool fast enough, or it's just not a high carbon steel.

Also, try to quench as soon as you can after removing it from the heat.
Click to expand...
Thank you! I appreciate your feedback very much. Really good advice.
 
Hilldogo88 said:
Hello everyone, I’m new here and I’m new to making knives. My dad recently passed and I needed something to throw my time into and I slowly chose this by just making a new handle for a knife. I’m all in now but I’m a little discouraged from my first build. I chose a rusty old disk to a plow. I drew it out, cut it out and got it down to about 80% finished then I heat treated. everything appeared to go smooth. After heat treating i got it to about 98% finished when I realized the very tip of my knife seem to have a bur on it. Turns out it wasn’t a bur it was bent a little. Then I started checking it. I can stick my finger nail into the tip and it bends over. I went about an eighth of an inch down the tip and I can put a dent in the tip of the blade (wasn’t sharpened yet) with my finger nail. Is the steel not high carbon? I don’t think it was my heat treating because like I said I thought it went very well and I followed all directions from a handful of people I follow on YouTube. I know I can’t expect to nail it on the first try but I just assumed since it was a disc from a plow that it had to be hard steel. Please help...
Click to expand...
Hilldogo88 said:
Thank you! I appreciate your feedback very much. Really good advice.
Click to expand...
Thank you everyone for your kind words and knowledge. I really think I was using crappy steel and got discouraged and slightly started to freak out that I may just be terrible at this LOL. Looks like I just need more experience and never use mystery steel. I look forward to being a part of this community!
 
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You say you can dent the steel with your fingernail?
That would be impossible even with soft steel, unless it was exceptionally thin-like the sharpened edge. But- you say it wasn't sharpened.
????
 
It was the very tip of the blade. It wasn’t completely sharpened but the edge was there probably 95% it just wouldn’t cut you if that makes sense. I have pictures but for some reason it won’t let me put pictures in here.
On a sidenote, I started my first blade with steel that I know the grade of. It’s actually going really well so I think I was just discouraged by the mystery steel.
 
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