What do custom buyers expect in the way of testing from makers?

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Jul 28, 2006
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Well how about a thread to bring some ideas from buyers and makers of custom knives together? :D

I would like to know what buyers/collectors of custom knives expect or would like for makers to include in our testing of our blades or steels? I'm not saying this would be done every blade because of the damage but working on new heat treats or when you get a new batch of steel in.

My current method is to heat treat and temper a 4" drop point. I do cutting/edge retention testing on cardboard and rope (I do perform this test every knife) and the brass rod test. I'll then hammer the cutting edge through a nail in several spots on the edge, then bend the blade over to test the springyness of my differential heat treat. Lastly I break the blade in 3 pieces to examine the grain structure and compare it to an as forged blade that has been broken in 3 pieces.

What would you have me add or subtract from my testing or suggest to other makers that we do to ensure that we're providing you with the quality blade you deserve as our customer?
 
That testing sounds pretty thorough, however there are some other tests you should consider adding;

-slashing through large, suspended chunks of meat, wrapped in denim
-stabbing through a car door
-hacking apart cinder blocks

These are quite relevant tests which I think will add additional value to your knives.

Oh, I'm such a kidder:)

One of the reasons I like the handmade knives that I like is because they are made by guys who want you to use them, and who take the time to make sure their product is as high performance as the price should dictate.

I'm glad to know that you test your knives, and I think it would behoove any and all bladesmiths to refer, somewhere in their literature or website, to how they go about ensuring quality and high performance, by way of testing.
 
The only additional test that I would recommend would be chopping through a 2 X 4 with the big knives. Overall though, I think your testing is pretty adequate.
 
I do expect the makers from whom I buy my knives to test their blades. I don't have a particular expectation of what form those tests should take.

Roger
 
I knew someone was going to go all Cliff Stamp on me :p I do have some sheep nearby but they're really hard to put dresses on much less jeans. ;)

All kidding aside, I will start including 2x4 chopping and maybe hanging rope cutting too. Thanks.
 
What, no flexing -270 degrees? No explosives? No rifles? At least slash a propane tank in half...

lol seriously your testing sounds good but I've found that my buyers don't care for the most part. I wish they would!
 
empty or full?

Do you use a reference blade to compare edge holding? Rope varies widely in abrasiveness.
 
I use a reference blade to compare the test blade against. Yeah I used to say well this will make "x" cuts in rope/cardboard, then next time the "x" would vary wildly so I made a reference blade and don't worry about cuts except how they compare to the reference blade.

Full of course, too hot out on the sidewalk where they keep the empty ones at.
 
I'd be very curious to hear input from the buyers/collectors on this topic as well.

Regarding the tests Will mentioned, how much detail do customers want? Those same tests have been discussed in detail various other places here, and it's evident they could be telling us totally different things, or nothing at all, depending on those details.
 
Try your local gas station/party store? Guess I wasn't sure just how you tested blades. Now I know. Thanks for the info.

Michdad, that was a joke aimed at another maker who was asking if I used explosives, rifles or chopped propane tanks. Unless I'm misreading what you're saying and that's very likely because I just got up for work (night shift) after a loooong weekend at Tannehills.
 
I expect the maker to test thoroughly any new steel or purveyor (any batch if the purveyor is inconsistent), and take notes on the right heat treatment for the various effects wished for (more or less springiness for different knives - I suspect most knives need limited springiness, depending how one defines this).

My general philosophy (there are always particular cases) would probably be as follows:
Once the maker is thoroughly familiar with their steel, I expect them to do only the absolute necessary ongoing testing. I think that once one is very comfortable with the properties they like in a steel (e.g., shallow vs deep hardening), the right course of action is to stick to one (or 2 to make damascus) steel(s), from known purveyor, to get a spec sheet every time, and have a repeatable MO to temper & harden the blades.

I would need to ask Kevin Cashen, Howard Clark, and / or Don Fogg to answer with more certainty. I am not sure what *needs* to be done every knife. The sure thing is that as a customer, I would prefer the maker to be organized so as to have to repeat as little as possible of the testing.
 
Well, I live in a one-bedroom apt in Seattle.. No yard, although there are currently lots of used 2x4's laying around due to the new condos going up next door... But I think folks would frown on it to find me out there whaling away on wood with sharp pointy things.... :rolleyes:

But, in terms of what I want to know from those custom makers I have bought, or will buy from, Craig Cammerer did a WIP thread on a bowie he made for me... In it, there were several pics of him out in his yard cutting stuff with it, including 2x4's on the ground, so I know he was also hitting the ground with it, as well as chopping into deer antlers, and finally, he shaved... The pic of all his "arm" hair on the blade got a few ribald remarks! :D

But I know my blade was tested by the maker and passed his expectations - so I know it would pass mine!

Basically, after hanging out here for the last several years, I know that most makers worth the price of their blades put them through paces I am unlikely to. But by having done that, I know I can rely on them should I ever have to...


Now... the only test I really want to see used more often is having the maker try opening bottles of champagne with the blade in the traditional manner!!! :eek:

If the edge comes away unchipped after that, I know they've done their homework!!! :D :D
 
I dont make knives anymore, but when I did I did alot of testing. I got every steel I could get, forged or ground different patterns, then cut rope and wood with them, trying different edge angles and blade grinds, finally (these were never complete knives with a fully complete handle) bent them in a vice untill they broke. All that made me decide about certain steels, I chose 1 I thought was a good compromise, between price of stock, edge holding, toughness and corrosion. My conclusion was that heat treating was just as important as any mistakes on my part. But I did test.
 
I buy and use the knives I get from Custom Makers. I want a maker to at least know how well a particular steel will hold an edge. Do I ever plan on using a blade to cut a nail? No! :eek: Is it good to know that it can? Yes! This shows me, the buyer, that the maker is confident in his product. :thumbup: Just my opinion.
 
the blade doesn't chip after chopping through nails? will it also still shave thereafter?
 
I hammer the blade through nails, I expect some edge deformation but am mainly looking to see if the blade cracks where it's being stressed, I hammer through nails in different places on the edge. This test simulates a hard strike on something very hard.

Here's my reasoning on the nail cutting test.... In a survival situation you can split logs by hammering the spine through the log, I have done this primitive camping and had a blade (factory knife) crack due to the stress of hitting a knot or hidden nail (from an old tree stand, I think.) Hammering the blade through a nail is the most realistic and stressful test I can think of, sure you could chop cinder blocks or car doors but car doors have windows (actually I could hammer the point through the door and hammer the spine to make cuts in the door) and I have a $3 masonry chisel.

I keep working on heat treats and edge geometry to make a knife that will hammer through. Convex edges get the least amount of deformation for me in this test.

I started this thread wondering if I was doing a thorough job of testing my blades. Numbers mean very little because there are lies, damn lies and statistics. :)
 
testing is one thing, but using them is another. I learn the most about my knives from actual use. Over the last 3 years I have not used any one elses work but my own and that alone has really helped me the most. Not really 100% on topic but I thought it was something that would benifit us makers :)
 
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