What do I need?

Rat Finkenstein

Rat Finkenstein

Joined
May 18, 2005
Messages
23,108
I have this little forge to mess with:
forge.jpg

it is hand cranked-(for now)

I was wondering if you guys could tell me what I will need to get going, as far as Fuel goes,(does regular charcoal work- or do I need coke?) and anything else I need before I can start heating and pounding on metal.
My first project isnt going to be a knife, but I have alot of railroad spikes to mess with, and I am thinking that would be a good start for trying to make some knives.
 
It is a coal forge, and for charcoal (lump type, not briquetes) you need to change the shape of the fire-pot a little bit, Use hard fire bricks from the local fireplace supply place or brickyard. coal really is better in that type of forge, as coke will want to go out in such a shallow fire pot and charcoal will want to have the whole top of it lit up.

You'll also need a grate to keep the coals (whatever type you use) from falling into the tuyere, I personally love the little bathroom drains that some hardware store sell, I found one in cast stainless, and it's held up to 6-7 hours a day for the last 6 months. if you use coke, you'll discover that a hand crank blower is a problem as it likes to extinguish itself on a regular basis without a constant blast (air blast)

Then you need a hammer, something to function as an anvil, and something to hold hot metal..... and a fire extinguisher :)

Drink lots of fluids, and ask lots of questions and you'll do alright.

Tony
 
I should add, charcoal in briquete form doesn't wwork well, as the binders will leave all kinds of trash in the fire.
 
many thanks for the info :D
BTW, where does one obtain coal, charcoal, or coke? Would a local co-op have anything? or would I need to seek a specialty store?
 
Depends a lot on where you live, around here, nobody has any of it in useful quantities, so ocasionally local guys get together and buy a bunch and arange to get it delivered.

Being in the north, a lot of places used to heat with coal, and you can get lucky and find someone who still has a full coal box from when they converted, otherwise, try and get ahold of the local blacksmithing organization, and ask who they get their coal from.

You can look up ABANA (Artist Blacksmith Assosciation of North America) on the web, and they will likely have a link to the local organization.

When you're buying coal, you want soft or bituminous coal, not anthracite.

Any more questions fell free to Email me tony@ysforge.com
 
charcoal is a much cleaner fuel and high grade charcoal is easily made if you have a good hardwood supply for firewood. coal contains things like sulphur and other hydrocarbon contaminants which can both interfere with welding and your health if not used in a properly ventilated environment. i make a lot of charcoal and would be willing to let you in on the technique. although it takes a while to manufacture a large amount it is only about 30 mins of your time to do it just in 2 blocks of around fifteen minutes. but you have bout 4 hrs u can play with ur knife making in the meen time.

email me at edwards_knives@msn.com for details. :)
 
The main concern when forging in an enclosed area isn't the smoke or other contaminantes in the fuel, but the carbon monoxide produced by the fire, any fuel produces it. you can see coal smoke, you can't see carbon monoxide. It should go without saying, you need to have a well ventilated area to do hot work.

I like coal because I can burn a full day on 25 pounds of coal, I can completely control my forge atmosphere, and I can weld in coal with a failure rate well under 1%

With charcoal, you need a deeper fire to work, the fuel likes to burn in places you don't need it to, and I burn 150-200 pounds in a day of forging.

Tony
 
ysforge said:
The main concern when forging in an enclosed area isn't the smoke or other contaminantes in the fuel, but the carbon monoxide produced by the fire, any fuel produces it. you can see coal smoke, you can't see carbon monoxide. It should go without saying, you need to have a well ventilated area to do hot work.

I like coal because I can burn a full day on 25 pounds of coal, I can completely control my forge atmosphere, and I can weld in coal with a failure rate well under 1%

With charcoal, you need a deeper fire to work, the fuel likes to burn in places you don't need it to, and I burn 150-200 pounds in a day of forging.

Tony
Click to expand...
If you really have that much difference in charcoal/coal usage, you are doing something wrong with the charcoal. (I'm assuming chunk charcoal not briquettes) Coal and charcoal have almost the same energy per pound, but charcoal is much less dense. I have used both and found I used nearly the same amount by weight. Since charcoal is less dense, I used about 4 times the volumn. That means I have to put fresh fuel in more often when using charcoal which may make it seem like more fuel is used and by volumn it is, but not by weight.
 
If you haven't already done so, go to your local library and look for books on bladesmithing and/or blacksmithing.

"The complete bladesmith" by J. Hrisoulas (i think that is spelled right, apologies if it's wrong) is an excelent start.
 
Perhaps you could give us a btu rate for both? oh, my coal is at 13,500 btu/pound, if that helps.

I know the weight of the charcoal used, as I did tests a few years ago to see the difference.

I do a lot of welding, and coal burns much more slowly and efficiently in my experience.

I use hardwood chunk charcoal when I use charcoal.

On a bad day I use 30 pounds of coal. I burn charcoal at a rate of 20 pounds an hour in the same forge.

Tony
 
According to "Pocket Ref" compiled by Thomas J. Glover charcoal has 25 million Btu per ton and bituminous coal has between 24.7-28.7 million Btu per ton. The 13500 Btu/lb you list comes out to 27 million Btu / ton.
 
He musta been using different charcoal than me. I use 20 lbs per hour in the same forge I burn 3-4 lbs per hour of coal. I imagine a lot of that has to do with being able to burn the fuel efficiently, when welding with coal, it gets warm around the forge, when welding with charcoal, it's unbearable. a lot of the energy from the charcoal is wasted.
 
I was gonna say, that's a LOT of charcoal, I use maybe 15 pounds in a long day forging, but I don't weld at all. You need a really deep fire to get welding heat with charcoal and that'd explain the amount you're using.
 
For me, a long day forging is 12-14 hours and a short day is 6 or 7.

I also have a constant blast, because fuel is less valuable than my time waiting for the fire to recover.

I do this to make a living, so I'm sure that I'm a little wasteful, but doing the same exact thing with coal, I use a LOT less.

Tony (I'm done discussing it and Hijacking this thread, I've shared my experience, that's all)
 
ysforge said:
For me, a long day forging is 12-14 hours and a short day is 6 or 7.

I also have a constant blast, because fuel is less valuable than my time waiting for the fire to recover.

I do this to make a living, so I'm sure that I'm a little wasteful, but doing the same exact thing with coal, I use a LOT less.

Tony (I'm done discussing it and Hijacking this thread, I've shared my experience, that's all)
Click to expand...

After I left I got to thinking you probably use a constant blast. Since charcoal is much less dense than coal, less mass fills the fire pot. That means you need less air to feed the fire. If you can turn your blast down to 1/2 or 1/4 of what it is for coal, you'll probably find the usage is about the same. As for waiting for the fire to recover, I find it takes less time for a charcoal fire to recover with a hand crank blower than coal. And since I work outside, a slight breeze will keep charcoal forging hot while coal needs air.

Ron
 
Yeah, the constant blast makes a big difference, but when I use charcoal I use about 4 cfm as my baseline for air, and about 14 for coal, with welding blast rising considerably for both. While charcoal does recover more quickly, I also almost always have another piece in the fire that I want ready to forge when I'm done with the piece I've got out now.

As an example, I make somewhere around 35-50 forge welds on an average day, sometimes considerably more, sometimes not quite as many. I have mesaured my fuel consumption, and the numbers I gave are acurate for the work that I do.

Tony
 
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