What do you advise? plated diamond progression, coarse diamond to ceramic ALO, SIC or Natural, SIC to ceramic ALO nat or diamond, Bonded diamonds...

[scottc3]

Given an initial budget of less then 100.00 dollars and disregarding systems vs free hand what would you advise?

- Ron from KME and Worksharp offer kits starting with plated diamonds and finishing with ceramic ALO. Tri-stone kits have been around since long before the grandpa's were pups.
- And a lot has been written and demonstrated about bonded diamonds, and I have seen tubes where either using all diamonds or just finishing with diamonds gives longer lasting edges on high vanadium steels, which makes sense.
- I do offer bonded diamonds when giving guidance to adults starting out (stone and steel materials, longevity, maintenance, percentage of diamonds included, finishes, and bonding materials hardness are mentioned). And I have used a 60 grit Mantacore to flatten a first gen Venev 80 grit KME stone, for several reasons, to my satisfaction.
- Gen Z kids are pushing back on sharpening time more so then millennials, the kids just get another cheap knife, and adults are simply in the busy season, and everyone is on accelerated and time shifted cell phone / Dick Tracy watch time.

 

[000Robert]

I love plated diamonds. Who needs anything else?

 

[scottc3]

I love plated diamonds. Who needs anything else?

LOL, Budget is a good reason to switch off. Also my 14 year old grand daughter ham fisted the Worksharp Precision 300 and 600 diamonds, and while they were diamonds, they did not stand up to her abuse. But I already knew these diamonds would be more quickly consumed, and that was fine with me. I just planned to put a Hapstone aluminum stone holder in that kit with coarse diamond, some coarse SIC, and ceramics, 200 to 800 grit.

 

[000Robert]

LOL, Budget is a good reason to switch off. Also my 14 year old grand daughter ham fisted the Worksharp Precision 300 and 600 diamonds, and while they were diamonds, they did not stand up to her abuse. But I already knew these diamonds would be more quickly consumed, and that was fine with me. I just planned to put a Hapstone aluminum stone holder in that kit with coarse diamond, some coarse SIC, and ceramics, 200 to 800 grit.

Yep, sometimes budget matters. Kids seem to have a knack for messing up anything.

 

[Bdtry]

Keeping in mind $100 budget, newbie sharpener, or teaching others:

I would say it really depends on the steels you will be sharpening. If you have a lot of low hardness carbon steel and softer stainless (common for most homes) then naturals or Alox might be best as I have heard that softer steels can "pull" diamonds out and wear them out faster due to the softer steel acting gummy instead of cutting super cleanly. Maybe a SiC roughing stone (120/220 maybe) for when you need a lot of material removal since they wear longer. For a newbie, or training people, you could fit a 3, maybe 4 Norton Crystolon/India stone set for hand sharpening in that $100 budget that will last for a looooong time and are almost bomb proof unless you drop them onto a hard surface. There are various water stones including ceramics from makers like King, Shapton, Naniwa etc that might be better but can also cost more and be a bit more sensitive to handling/soaking/drying etc which might not be the best for a total newbie. You could have a ready list of higher tier stones printed off to give them to look into when they have a better idea to what they are doing and know proper stone prep, care, and maintenance.

If you go system with 6" stones then Boride T2 set will do fine. I use the Edge Pro stones (various types of Boride stones) on carbon and stainless knives with great results.

If you have knives with harder high end steel then diamonds of some sort will really help but may not necessarily be required. I personally really like bonded diamonds as they last near forever but with a $100 budget you won't get a lot. A few cheaper diamond plates could work quite well but may not last the longest, seems to be a crapshoot as to what you get longevity wise on "Chinese special" diamond plates. Also, as you found, a heavy handed beginner can easily demolish even a good quality diamond plate with too much pressure. On the other hand they can also be the cheapest option at $20? a set from Amazon or various discount stores for the lower end options. You won't want to take a set of Atoma or DMT diamond plates to teach a "learn how to sharpen" class. There are some cheaper plated diamonds that come on thin sheets that you could cut to size and glue to blanks for system sharpening and not worry about them being wrecked.

Cheap diamond plates are probably the best in general option since you won't have to worry about them being dropped, premature wear isn't such a big deal since they don't cost much, they don't require a lot of prep or flattening before use and so on.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

For new sharpeners, I'd not emphasize a progression at all - it unnecessarily complicates learning of the fundamentals. Start them off with a single stone of good quality - one that's appropriate to the steel type they're learning to sharpen, such as a diamond hone for wear-resistant steels or a simple India stone (Fine) for simpler cutlery in mainstream carbon or low-alloy stainless steels.

Emphasize watching for the burr to indicate a completely apexed edge. Then use the same stone at a progressively lighter touch to reduce the burr and refine sharpness. When they reach the point when they're accomplishing that pretty well, everything else that follows, in terms of using different stones or a progression of stones, will rely on the same principles and light touch and will be a breeze to learn by comparison.

I learned essentially all of the 'touch' for sharpening using plated diamond hones (DMT). They cut any steel very efficiently at the lightest touch possible - and a too-heavy hand will punish results. So, my bias leans toward using a diamond hone first to acquire the right, light touch for ALL sharpening. If that's learned on a diamond hone, it'll pay benefits across the board with everything else they use. That's how it went for me.

Diamond stones can work well with even the simplest of steels, BTW. And emphasizing the lightest touch possible is even more important with steels like these, because a diamond hone will be overkill if the touch is too heavy or the choice of grit used is too coarse for the steel. A 'coarse' diamond (325, for example) or a 'fine' (600) can still work well for edge-setting and reprofiling tasks on relatively small or medium-sized blades in simpler steels. Trying to learn the touch for sharpening will be more difficult using anything coarser than that, starting out - a very coarse diamond hone (XC, XXC) can leave an edge very rough and much more difficult to refine. By contrast, I got the most reward, in learning terms, starting out with a 'Fine' (600) DMT - for a time, I used that for all edge-setting & reprofiling on folder blades up to about 4" in length, in steels like 420HC, D2 and S30V. Takes more time to set edges on thicker blades with that - but that also teaches something about patience and not trying to rush things. And the 600 DMT was fine enough to yield big rewards in the refinement steps as well. So, it kept me motivated to keep learning and progressing.

 

[scottc3]

Cheap diamond plates are probably the best in general option since you won't have to worry about them being dropped, premature wear isn't such a big deal since they don't cost much, they don't require a lot of prep or flattening before use and so on.

Agree, generally I would not go expensive quality diamonds in any flavor until a new user has spent time practicing.

 

[scottc3]

For new sharpeners, I'd not emphasize a progression at all - it unnecessarily complicates learning of the fundamentals. Start them off with a single stone of good quality - one that's appropriate to the steel type they're learning to sharpen, such as

I try and read the new sharpener's situation, and as friends or blood, guide accordingly. No one has yet chosen to take up free hand sharpening, but I am priming several young men to accept that challenge because you never know when or where a knife will need edge maintenance. First time any of my kids saw a stone it was a pocket SIC taken from my tackle box to sharpen a small fillet knife.

my bias leans toward using a diamond hone first to acquire the right, light touch for ALL sharpening. If that's learned on a diamond hone, it'll pay benefits across the board with everything else they use.

The burr and a right touch are major chunks for developing sharpening skills!

 

[scottc3]

Interesting that so far, 3 votes were given to bonded diamonds all the way. Would love to hear the argument for giving new sharpeners bonded diamonds.

 

[311climber]

Interesting that so far, 3 votes were given to bonded diamonds all the way. Would love to hear the argument for giving new sharpeners bonded diamonds.

given a budget. it would be hard to even include them into the vote. if your buying them and sticking with one grit i guess 100$ would buy a single one maybe two grits. depend on the size and maker of them also what your end goal is, i love low grits these days but if your trying to whittle hair going up the scale doesnt hurt if you keep angles true. a low grit can whittle hair too if your good.

 

[Stockman]

If you are new to sharpening and going freehand, hard to go wrong with a Norton India Coarse/Fine oil stone. Cheap, hard wearing and good feedback. Hard to go passed these as a novice, until you get into the new super steels with a high content of Vanadium carbides. Only diamonds here, so maybe throw in a cheap diamond plate until they learn pressure control.
Not sure about guided systems as I have never ventured down this path, maybe one day, but probably not as I am an old rock scratcher that can live with wonky bevels if they are sharp.

 

[scottc3]

maybe throw in a cheap diamond plate until they learn pressure control

that is my strategy with novice sharpeners for sure.

 

[scottc3]

hard to go wrong with a Norton India Coarse/Fine oil stone.

yes, ubiquitous, if I ever volunteered to run a class each student might get one. but...
Bench stone kit this xmas is a BYXCO Manticore extra coarse 260 micron for 20 bucks, and a BYXCO American Mutt Medium-Coarse for 13.50 US. because I have never tried them. Still need a fine, but not till after xmas, for BYXCO Arctic Fox 22µ for 53.25 US.

 

[Spats McGee]

yes, ubiquitous, if I ever volunteered to run a class each student might get one. but...
Bench stone kit this xmas is a BYXCO Manticore extra coarse 260 micron for 20 bucks, and a BYXCO American Mutt Medium-Coarse for 13.50 US. because I have never tried them. Still need a fine, but not till after xmas, for BYXCO Arctic Fox 22µ for 53.25 US.

I'm considering picking up an Arctic Fox and an American Mutt for myself for Xmas.