What do you guys think about agitating your quench bucket?

Rene E. Roy

Rene E. Roy

Joined
Oct 4, 1999
Messages
709
I have read some posts that some knifemakers have attached a motor or some type of device to agitate there quench buckets so when they quench their blades its going into a moving liquid....what are your thoughts about this???
 
I reckon that'd be OK if I had so many blades to heat treat/quench that my arm would give out before I could get to all of them...........

I've never had any trouble just swishin' my blades around in the quenchent, though.
 
Anything such as that has got to be good so long as the oil is moving about. In quenchng a blade in still oil I prefer to move the blade in a back and forth cutting motion rather than side to side, except for a slow side to side while rapid back and forth cutting motion.

RL
 
Isn't bad enough when you agitate your girlfriend, now you need to agitate the things in your shop too?
 
a lotta commercial applications use a pump to circulate oil in the quench tank
 
I think when the term "agitate" is used in relationship to quenching, it refers to a small pump that GENTLY circulates the quench media. In my early years of bladesmithing I had some very bad warpage probelms occur, only to find that it was due to me "sloshing" the blades around in a quench that had not been pre-heated. Even today I try very hard not to "swish" the blades around when quenching........maybe I'm still "gun shy" from those early experiences.
 
Don't agitate the bucket , either move the blade back and forth( not side to side) or use a circulating pump. If the quench is different on one side than the other the blade will warp.
 
I'm thinking the biggist advantage to agitating the oil is to keep a uniform oil temp. in your tank

agitating the little woman keeps her on her toes... ;)
 
I have a parts washer submersible pump. I'm trying to figure out how I want to design a tank to utilize it. I don't really want to have a tank in which there is a propeller or something moving around in there. If anyone has a good idea about this, I would welcome it. Also, anyone have a good cheap method for providing heat? I was thinking of a water heater element and temp controller. Think that would work?
 
Jeff the water heater idea sounds good but I wonder if the oil would burn
onto the elements? :confused:
 
How hot do those elements get, Dan? I've never seen one in operation. How hot does the oil need to be anyway? I seem to recall 180 degrees or so would work. Would the element get so hot it would ignite the oil you think?
 
Jeff they work either on or off with no in-between
and the wattage would be a factor, but they all will get very hot I'd say, they will burn out if not submerged,,
different oils need different temps too. veggie oil should be about 130 deg.

I don't think the element would catch fire fully submerged :confused:
the thermostats on water heaters will set as low as 120 deg I think..
 
I don't "swish" either. Lots of problems involved in moving blades around in the quench.
I have been using a water heater element in my oil tank for the last 10 years or so, when used with a take off electric oven control it gives me a heat range from 100 deg. to 475 deg. Been working well for me. 8" diam. tank, 18" long. Once you see the convection action of the oil off the element as it heats, the pump kinda seems moot.
Course if you are doing LOTS of blades at once a cooling system might be necessary.
2 cents; mike
 
My quench tank is the bottom half of an electric water heater, holds about 15 gal of oil. I use the elements to preheat the oil to 140 F. I don't use the thermostat, just preheat before I start quenching, check with a thermometer. The element is a 220 v. I just used 110, for conveniance. No problems, been useing water heater elements to preheat oil for 6 or 7 years.

Soon as I can scrounge a washing machine pump, I'll plumb it into the tank. I was wondereing if they would take the heat? A maker over on Tool Time, said that's waht he used.

I read about a tank setup with a paint mixer and low speed motor to move the oil.

The pump should provide flow past the blade. Reduceing the "steam jacket effect" maybe you don't get steam in oil, but a local super heated oil pocket, whatever you call it. The flow should improve the heat dissiapation, I'm thinking.

Whirlpool quench?
 
Here is post form CKD detailing how I set mine up, it is very similar to what Sweany is describing. I have not had a problem with the heat affecting the nylon pump.

I recently set up a heated quench tank using the bottom out of an old hot water heater and the pump out of a washing machine. I cut the bottom out of the tank a few inches above the thermostat mount. I replaced the factory element with a little 110v unit. I then dilled three 1/2 holes in the tank, one each 180 degrees from the element at the top and bottom, and one 90 degrees from the element in the middle of the tank. In each hole I soldered in pipe fittings to use a hose connectors. I scavenged a pump and flex shaft from an old washing machine with a burned out motor. I had an old motor sitting around from another project which I used to drive the pump. I welded up a shallow tray from some 1 1/2 or 2 inch angle (I can't remember) then glued a bottom in it. Each side of the edge quench tank has a drilled and fitted nipple, one with a valve. The upper quench tank return line sits directly above the main tank so it gravity feeds back in.

The beautiful part is the pump has two inlets and two outlets, so I am able to have constant recirculation within my main tank. I can then open a valve to the upper edge quench tank and adjust the level of the fluid as needed.

On the downside the tank I used holds about fifteen gallons of oil. If I have to do it over, I would find a smaller tank. Also, I would not solder in the pipe nipples. I had to use heavier tubing than expected so I am afraid any lateral stress on the solder joints will result in 15 gallons of oil on my floor.

With this set up I can heat the entire contents to 120 to 150 degrees (I am still experimenting) in about 30 to 45 minutes.

Justin
 
Sweany said:
Whirlpool quench?
Click to expand...

So what would be a good circulation pattern inside the tank, Mike? Are you saying a whirlpool effect is good? I would think that a 5-gallon container with a slow-spiraling whirlpool would be quite effective. You could quench the blade toward the side of the whirlpool, facing the edge into the current. Does that sound okay, or too technical for simple quenching?

What about a different pattern of circultation, like from bottom to top in a "turnover" pattern?

BTW, Rene: Great topic! Thanks!
 
I've made a deal with the creature that lives in the bottom of mine. I don't agitate him and he doesn't crack my blades.

:)
 
The ones Ive used industrially have the oil pumping from the bottom. You would the lower the knife into the rising column of oil. Remember agitation must be the same on each side of the knife.
 
mete said:
The ones Ive used industrially have the oil pumping from the bottom. You would the lower the knife into the rising column of oil. Remember agitation must be the same on each side of the knife.
Click to expand...

So if I drew the oil off near the top and "geysered" it up from the bottom, that would work the best you think, Mete?
 
You shouldn't have to 'draw the oil off the top'.A pump placed near the bottom will force a column of oil to the top and you will be setting up circulation of up in the center and down the sides .You lower the knife into the center of the rising column.
 
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