What do you like about working with, and using D2?

M

maximus83

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It seems like every time I turn around, somebody is trying to make a 'better D2'. An example I ran across the other day about Sleipner steel: "Sleipner has improved toughness compared to D2, good wear and chipping resistance" (http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/sleipner.shtml).

Also, in the super steels category, there are now steels that have as good or better edge holding, similar or better toughness, AND vastly improved stain resistance. Lots of choices available.

Thing is: I still really like D2, despite the more modern alternatives. It takes a great edge if you use the right abrasive, and that edge lasts a LONG time. Like, longer than S30v for example, at least on the knives I have. And sharpened right, with a good blade geometry, it gets great cutting performance.

I'm curious if there are others that still like working with and using D2, and if so: what do you like about it, and what applications do you prefer using it for. Or if you've moved on to other steels on the premise that the only remaining reason to use D2 is lower cost, given the 'improved' alternatives.
 
Don't like sharpening it, but it lasts longer than most steel in its cost range. Even when it's not optimized ht, it still performs well.

Honestly I don't use my d2 as often anymore, but its primarily due to the knives I have in d2 aren't the ones I have in constant rotation. Most mid range knives don't use d2, and most folks would scoff at a $200 d2 folding knife.

I want to eventually get a cpk in d2 but I'm not in any rush to get one.

Xhp and sleipner are in my rotation and I do enjoy them both.
 
In a 3 year quest to find a replacement for my M2hss knife, I've tried lots of steels.
The 2 examples of D2 I've tried didn't meet my needs. I had no problem getting excellent edges. It's fine for regular use but for how well it resists edge damage with my use at work, I put it in the same category as 154cm, vg10, and most other stainless blades in the ~60 hrc range, but definitely a step or two below s30v.
 
I love D2. Sharpens beautifully, takes a great polish and holds a great edge. I’d personally take it over S30V any day for most applications.
 
maximus83 said:
It seems like every time I turn around, somebody is trying to make a 'better D2'. An example I ran across the other day about Sleipner steel: "Sleipner has improved toughness compared to D2, good wear and chipping resistance" (http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/sleipner.shtml).

Also, in the super steels category, there are now steels that have as good or better edge holding, similar or better toughness, AND vastly improved stain resistance. Lots of choices available.

Thing is: I still really like D2, despite the more modern alternatives. It takes a great edge if you use the right abrasive, and that edge lasts a LONG time. Like, longer than S30v for example, at least on the knives I have. And sharpened right, with a good blade geometry, it gets great cutting performance.

I'm curious if there are others that still like working with and using D2, and if so: what do you like about it, and what applications do you prefer using it for. Or if you've moved on to other steels on the premise that the only remaining reason to use D2 is lower cost, given the 'improved' alternatives.
Click to expand...

Also I often hear CTS-XHP described as having properties like “stainless D2”. I don’t know how accurate that is as xhp is a powdered steel.

I love d2. Supposedly it has large chromium carbides which give it a toothy edge. However as those chromium carbides are easier to sharpen with my Alox sharpmaker rods seem to work fine cutting chromium carbides. Seems like once you have a good crisp edge set it lasts and lasts.

I actually find it quite responsive to touchups, this is despite its reputation as being an absolute bear to sharpen. It might well be a pain to reprofile, I haven’t tried.

Also sometimes it seems to get a reputation for being chippy. I have posted this video before. Skip to
2:00 if you are impatient.
 
More misc D2 things.

Mo2 Mo2 : good point on CTS-XHP, and this reminds me. XHP itself, is yet ANOTHER effort to offer D2-like edge retention and toughness, plus higher stain resistance, but without the manufacturing (and eventual sharpening) hassle and expense of adding high vanadium content. Zknives says this about XHP: "CTS-XHP is an air hardening, high carbon, high chromium, corrosion resistant alloy which can be described as either a high hardness Type 440C stainless steel or a corrosion resistant D2 tool steel" (emphasis added). I really like my one XHP blade and think they have succeeded stunningly, it's a great steel for folders, and increasingly, you see it offered in everything from $100 Cold Steel lives like the Recon and Ultimate Hunter, all the way to $400 and up mid-tech knives, and even some high dollar customs. But the point here is, apparently the original IDEA of D2--its common attributes such as a high edge retention tool steel with good stain resistance--continue to be attractive as seen by similar modern steels being designed around similar principles.

J jpm2 : Can you elaborate on what specific things you found that d2 was "a step or two below s30v"? I'm an S30v fan for many years, so not knocking it in the least, but I have experienced more than one blade by quality knife companies--like Benchmade--have exhibited chipping on me. I recently posted here about a Benchmade produced Ritter MK3 that had chipped on me and took a lot of sharpening to fix that big chip. Although sometimes D2 has the rep of being 'chippy' as well, and I believe it from detailed reviews I've read, I've not personally seen it in my blades. But then, my D2 blades have been mostly folders up to this point. The main point of comparison I have between D2 and S30v is specifically in the area of edge retention in folders doing 'edu' types of tasks. There, D2 has held up longer for me than S30v.

A recent little D2 anecdote of performance and edge retention: a couple months ago, I bought an Ontario Rat folder in D2. I already had and liked this design, but specifically wanted D2 for the edge retention. That crazy $39 Rat knife has delivered big time! I don't think I've ever had such a low cost folder perform this well right out of the box. First, I was impressed with the build quality, including the nice consistent factory edge bevel they put on it. This knife would easily shave right out of the box, which was impressive enough. But it gets better. Today after this thread started, I decided to go back and test the edge, see how it's holding up. First, the edge passed the Rizla green cigarette paper horizontal push-cut test. Remember, still the factory edge, and approx 2 months of not heavy, but moderate usage including cutting up boxes, opening mail, food prep, and other misc tasks. Then it did more: I found it could whittle up a curl on a hair. That is pretty impressive edge performance, and edge retention. I'm sure that's not all the D2 steel, obviously it's good blade geometry and a good quality factory edge to enable that performance. But the fact it could still whittle a hair after a couple months of usage, I see as pretty good edge retention. I have a number of folders that cost more and use better steels that could not equal that retention. So, it's at least possible with some blades to realize pretty nice performance out of D2.

Another question about D2, which I have less firsthand experience with outside of folding knives: How does D2 toughness hold up if using it, say, in a field knife for wood processing tasks like batoning, chopping, and prying? Assuming a good design and well executed blade, can D2 be a good performer in these kinds of conditions?
 
I have my first knife that a friend made me and it’s my first in d2. And I love it. It was a bear to profile to my liking, hard as woodpecker lips, but it’s held a very sharp edge for longer than any steel I’ve had. And I’ve had a bunch of them. It’s still just shy of hair popping and it’s been used to snot and back for everything from cooking to trimming fiberglass and cutting cardboard for near a month. I find it very similar to an m4 bark river I have. He tested it to 61 when he treated it. I’ll find out soon how easy it touches up. It does stain just a little, I suspect the acid etch finish compounds that (rough finishes leave better places for corrosion to start) and am thinking about taking the roughness off with some scotchbrite.
 
maximus83 said:
More misc D2 things.

Another question about D2, which I have less firsthand experience with outside of folding knives: How does D2 toughness hold up if using it, say, in a field knife for wood processing tasks like batoning, chopping, and prying? Assuming a good design and well executed blade, can D2 be a good performer in these kinds of conditions?
Click to expand...

In short, yes. I have a D2 OKC TAK 1 that has severed me quite well. I think Ontario has their D2 HT figured out pretty well. I also think a lot of people under-rat a knife's toughness because of some experience with bad HT's. I have batoned the D2 without problem but I'm not the type of person to baton with a 3' oak log because I want to treat the knife like a splitting wedge. I tend to use lighter branches and hit the knife more times with less power and effort so it's not tiring or super hard on the blade.

My prying is limited to prying the batoned wood away from the main log or prying pieces up when working wood for carving or notching. I used it a lot takin out malicious grape vines in the area and a few were large enough I had to baton through so that was a lot of the batoning but also did a bunch on chopping trying to clear out the spots I was trying to work through. The materials is pretty soft but barky; biggest problem was it was soft enough it kept binding up without a firm backing to cut against. The next time I went out trying to save some trees I brought a golok machete.

I love D2, but not because it's the best blade steel but because it seems to be the best value for my uses. I'm not big into razor sharp edges but like a good working edge and the D2 seems to shiny there. It seems like it has a grabby edge, too, which I haven't experienced with other steels, even the ones that are supposed to be improvements of D2 like CTS-XHP, which has been a great steel for me from the spyderco and cold steel models I've had.

My personal opinion on blade steels, though, is that if you want to know how good the steels really are you almost have to get something from a maker where the HT is usually better controlled. This is a very, very broad statement and there are larger manufacturers doing great things with HT but it seems like some of the makers really have things dialed in for the particular steels they work with. For example, D2 and LT Wright or Bob Dozier seem to go hand in hand, they've dialed it to perfection. I've just been that much more impressed with the stuff coming from the one-off knives than the mass-produced ones, given the mass-produced ones are still damn fine blades too.
 
Love D2 -- it's a cousin to S30V -- and CTS-XHP, which seems to have smaller carbides and sharpens easier. My Dozier K1 is consistently a great slicer and holds an edge forever. Another is my Grippie in D2, thin blade takes an amazing edge and holds it.
 
bikerector bikerector , you are spot on, to really find out if a steel is good, you have to get it from somebody who is getting the HT right. With folders, which has been my main experience of D2, generally I'm not using the blade hard enough that things like "toughness" or "stain resistance" matter much. All I care about in a D2 folder are 3 attributes: is it more affordable than other steels that are equally good at holding edges for a long time, can I get the edge super sharp, and will that edge last for a longer time than most steels. By those criteria, the little Rat 1 D2 folder is a standout. But when it comes to a field knife in D2, I'd also want it to be tough enough to handle moderate wood processing duty without chipping or rolling edges.

A Alberta Ed , man I would love to get hold of a Dozier D2, they sound like the best, but so hard to get one! Looks like they are not shying away from using D2 in some big fixed blades that are intended to be capable of 'light chopping' duty. Two sweet examples that caught my eye:

http://www.dozierknives.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53
http://www.dozierknives.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=26
 
I bought my friend a D2 slippie. Came dull as dishwater water. Sharpened it for him on a Tormek, and the edge held up a long time — until he lost it!
 
annr said:
I bought my friend a D2 slippie. Came dull as dishwater water. Sharpened it for him on a Tormek, and the edge held up a long time — until he lost it!
Click to expand...

What abrasive type did you use to get a good result on D2? I've always just used diamonds in the past and did fine, they work. But as has been discussed recently in other threads, some steels 'like' certain abrasives more. I wonder what the sweet spot abrasive is for D2? I would think SiC stones would abrade it just fine, tempted to try my new-ish Sharp Pebble stone and see how it does. AlOx, I dunno, I'm assuming there are folks here who've tried it and could comment.
 
maximus83 said:
What abrasive type did you use to get a good result on D2? I've always just used diamonds in the past and did fine, they work. But as has been discussed recently in other threads, some steels 'like' certain abrasives more. I wonder what the sweet spot abrasive is for D2? I would think SiC stones would abrade it just fine, tempted to try my new-ish Sharp Pebble stone and see how it does. AlOx, I dunno, I'm assuming there are folks here who've tried it and could comment.
Click to expand...
I've tried everything and diamond was the only one that worked. Didn't try cbn but I'd imagine that would work too.
 
M maximus83 I experienced repeated rolled edges with D2, at work where I'm unusually rough with my knife. There might be some D2 out there that does better, but 0 for 2 is enough for me. All 4 S30V blades do much better. Same edge angle, same use, all folders. Benchmade D2 556, Benchmade S30V 556/impel/northfork, Spyderco S30V sage1, Kershaw D2 composite.
I've found both steels roll long before they chip, but S30V requiring significantly more force.

As for edge retention, I find the ones that hold up best at work, also do slightly better in their less demanding roles.

Interesting the different experiences we all have.
 
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maximus83 said:
What abrasive type did you use to get a good result on D2? I've always just used diamonds in the past and did fine, they work. But as has been discussed recently in other threads, some steels 'like' certain abrasives more. I wonder what the sweet spot abrasive is for D2? I would think SiC stones would abrade it just fine, tempted to try my new-ish Sharp Pebble stone and see how it does. AlOx, I dunno, I'm assuming there are folks here who've tried it and could comment.
Click to expand...

For hogging off steel, SiC or diamond do it easily on D2.

For the mid-stage refinement after setting the initial grind, SiC still does OK, diamond is better. AlOx oilstone of decent quality works reasonably well, if other options aren't available.

For getting the edge as completely crisp as possible, after the previous steps, that's where I prefer to stick with diamond only. I've found that SiC or AlOx don't quite get it as crisp and wicked-sharp, and as cleanly burr-free, as diamond does at this stage.

For upkeep via stropping, I agree with Martin's perspective, re: using a hard-as-possible substrate for that. Any softish-backed stropping I've tried with D2 tends to round off the apex, after which I usually feel the need to re-crisp it with a diamond hone. The one exception, in my my own uses, is that a very firmly-backed denim strop, used with a clean-cutting AlOx compound at a featherlight touch to minimize compression, can maintain a more polished finish on D2 pretty well for a while. But again, for higher polish, I'd ideally prefer something like basswood with diamond compound (3µ is great for that). I tend to feel balsa's a bit too soft for it, so basswood or something harder is better for me.
 
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Mo2 said:
Can anyone answer this guys question?
https://www.instagram.com/p/BdDY4rdg2EK/

I've not run into chipping while sharpening d2. I assume it's ht related. But maybe there is another explanation?
Click to expand...

I'm also assuming it's a HT issue. D2 has been known for that; it's apparently more tricky in getting the HT right. Chipping and broken blades in heavy D2 knives used for batoning, especially, are some of the horror stories I've heard about D2 blades with less-than-great heat treat. I've had one knife from Benchmade, with a D2 blade, that had a visible chip near the tip when I bought it (secondhand). Also could see a visible crack under magnification, propagating vertically away from the chip, in the direction of the spine. In that case, I eventually reground the edge back a bit, to get rid of the chipped and damaged portion, including the visible crack. I haven't used that blade for anything since, as that previous crack in the steel worried me about the quality of the heat treat. Afraid I may end up with a missing tip on that blade, if the steel's actually that brittle.

In that Instagram post, the OP there seems to hint that he finally 'got to some stable steel' after grinding a lot off, and the edge held better after that. That may also point to overheating issues near the edge, when the maker ground the edge on the blade.


David
 
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Mo2 said:
Can anyone answer this guys question?
https://www.instagram.com/p/BdDY4rdg2EK/

I've not run into chipping while sharpening d2. I assume it's ht related. But maybe there is another explanation?
Click to expand...
I experienced a similar problem with the sage1 blade when new. Kept on grinding and finally got rid of the unstable steel. It's very good now. It could have got that way from post HT factory grinding, or maybe the edge was too thin pre HT.
 
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Has anyone here had experience with Queen's D2?
I have a Queen fixed blade model 92 in D2 that takes a wicked edge and seems to hold it well with the limited use that I have put it through. (Cleaning a limit of trout and some food prep.)
 
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