What do you use for lapping your coarse stones (e.g. 120, 220, 320)

catalystman80

catalystman80

Joined
May 1, 2013
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Hi guys,

Tried doing some searching through this sub but couldn't quite find what I was looking for, so wondering whether I could pick your brains.

I get by pretty well (not professional, so I realize some may scoff at this) using Atoma 400 and sometimes the small Naniwa Flattening Stones for my 1000 and up stones (all my water stones are the imported versions of Shapton Pros, so hano kuromaku, though my understanding is there's no difference, with exception of my 320 which is the GS version, long story....). Specifying the models I use here as I realize the grit numbers aren't universal from one brand/model to another. I mostly use my Shaptons for bushcraft knives in 01, D2, and A2.

I know there's an option of using lapping powders (e.g. silicon carbide) with a glass plate or a granite reference block, etc. but I'd ideally want something less messy.

Seems like this European site sells the coarse version of the Large Naniwa Flattening stone (24 grit) for rougher stones, which is currently the top contender (http://www.fine-tools.com/abrichtblock.html) I can't seem to find this version from any US online retailer (the standard 220 I saw from one or two US sites).

I had been flattening my 320 and 220 with my 120 (and also rubbing 220 and 320 against each other), but I recently dished out my 120 a bit while re-profiling a council tool velvicut boys axe which came essentially blunt AND too thick (dumb idea in hindsight, but I didn't have access to proper bastard files at the time).

So long story short, ideally looking for a sub $100 option to lap my 120, 220, and 320. Should I go ahead ordering the coarse Large Naniwa flattening stone (with the added shipping fee and all....) or do you guys have other suggestions?

On a side note, do you think the DMT diaflat 125 or 95 would do the trick against the Shapton 120? Or would that wear out the diaflats pretty quickly? (I know they're over $100, but always kinda wanted them....)

Thanks for taking the time to read this nonsense, and thanks in advance for your inputs.

Josh
 
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I did the same on my coarse SiC stone from thinning one of my hatchets. Removing a lot of metal on an axe or hatchet will do it. I brought my stone back to leveled on concrete. A flattening tile from Home Depot I've read will work too. Good luck, DM
 
Thanks David! Flattening tile sounds like a pretty cheap and effective option (i wonder how flat it is....). It is about ten dollars at home depot I see, so price wise very attractive.
 
HeavyHands has used it and says it gives good results. Go have a look at them and see. DM
 
HD tile rubbing stone works well, I also like to keep an 8" grinder wheel (with label soaked off) in the bottom of my rinse bucket and just rub the stone's face on it when I rinse the/clean the surface - then I never need to do big lapping job and it stays flat.

Recently I started using a diamond lapping disk for the coarse stuff. Have also used it to shape some natural stones as well. I intended mostly to use it on a disk sharpening unit I made. The coarse ones work very well for lapping tougher stones like Crystalon or coarse waterstones. Unlike most plates made for sharpening, the diamond is plated pretty thick into the base. Not as effective for sharpening but way better for lapping stones.

I picked up the 8" 180 mesh, but would likely get a 100 mesh if just for heavy lapping of waterstones or other vitreous stones. They are all well under $100, even with shipping. I hear so much variable feedback from the purpose-built lapping plates sold by waterstone mfgs, am very happy with the disk I have. I've also used it to flatten some plane irons and chisel backs.

http://www.kingsleynorth.com/skshop/product.php?id=88638&catID=182
 
I have been using the 8" DMT XXC to flatten my shapton glass 220,320,500 grits and an Atoma 400 to flatten the 1k-16k. So far they are working fine but I have only flattened the whole set two or three times since I got the diamond plates (the first time through they were super dished and took a lot of work to flatten).
 
OldNavy said:
I have one of these
http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/sharpening-accessories/products/diamond-flattening-plate

works on every stone I have, even a jumbo Binsui. And with -in posted budget

If you want a better option!
https://www.dmtsharp.com/sharpeners/specialty/dia-flat-lapping-plate-1/
Click to expand...


Thanks for that share oldnavy, just to clarify, have you used them on a 120 grit watersonte? I realize 120 doesn't mean the same across different brands/models, but just wondering 1. if it's effective, and 2. even if it is, will they wear out pretty fast if used to flap 120 waterstone. thanks

HeavyHanded said:
HD tile rubbing stone works well, I also like to keep an 8" grinder wheel (with label soaked off) in the bottom of my rinse bucket and just rub the stone's face on it when I rinse the/clean the surface - then I never need to do big lapping job and it stays flat.

Recently I started using a diamond lapping disk for the coarse stuff. Have also used it to shape some natural stones as well. I intended mostly to use it on a disk sharpening unit I made. The coarse ones work very well for lapping tougher stones like Crystalon or coarse waterstones. Unlike most plates made for sharpening, the diamond is plated pretty thick into the base. Not as effective for sharpening but way better for lapping stones.

I picked up the 8" 180 mesh, but would likely get a 100 mesh if just for heavy lapping of waterstones or other vitreous stones. They are all well under $100, even with shipping. I hear so much variable feedback from the purpose-built lapping plates sold by waterstone mfgs, am very happy with the disk I have. I've also used it to flatten some plane irons and chisel backs.

http://www.kingsleynorth.com/skshop/product.php?id=88638&catID=182
Click to expand...
Wow, thank you Heavyhanded, I've gone back to some of the older posts and read you talking about the tile rubbing stone, but the diamond discs sound like a great bang for buck. I'll definitely keep that in my wishlist. I got impatient and ordered the 24 grit large naniwa lapping stone from the German site I referred to on my OP, I'll report back how I like it. Just like any lapping stone of that nature, I'm sure it'll need a lapping of its own at some point (well maybe not, i'm no pro and I sharpen only to maintain/reprofile my personal knives), so I'm definitely interested in getting the diamond disc at some point in the future.

Tiverton said:
I have been using the 8" DMT XXC to flatten my shapton glass 220,320,500 grits and an Atoma 400 to flatten the 1k-16k. So far they are working fine but I have only flattened the whole set two or three times since I got the diamond plates (the first time through they were super dished and took a lot of work to flatten).
Click to expand...

Thanks Tiverton, that's actually the exact setup I have been using (XXC and Atoma 400). The XXC I've decided is ok up to 320 for my taste, but didn't want to chance it against 120 since it's about the same grit and I didn't want to possibly prematurely wear the XXC out too soon. I actually love it for reprofiling my CPM blades, so XXC is still well used.
 
The Naniwa Lapping Plate won't do much of anything unless you get the Silicon Carbide powder to go with it. 36 grit for stones below 1000, 220 for stones above 1000. I would also recommend using it outside with a garden hose, its messy.

Because of the coarseness level of the Shapton 120 and the hardness of the stone it's almost impossible to lap correctly without the SiC powder.
 
Thanks Jason, darn, I knew I should've ordered some SiC powders with it from the same site. I got it from fine-tools.com, but this is the one I got (http://www.sliqhaq.com/flattening-stone-grit-large-p-997.html) as the description stated it's for lapping 120-1000. I'll report back how it works, and gets some SiC too at some point.

I was trying desperately to not go the SiC route for the messiness, etc., but sounds like that may be a necessary evil for me.
 
Ive used one a fair amount, one side is flat the other is grooved. I used the grooved side for coarse stones and the flat side for fine stones, it gets too muddy on the flat side for coarse stones and the grooved side is a bit aggressive on fine stones.

Used without SiC powder it does ok but is rather slow because the abrasive is so tightly bound. Won't do much of anything to a Shapton. Can leave unpleasant scratches on the waterstones too (in the finer grits).
 
Gotcha, thanks for that feedback. I don't intend to use the 24 grit Large Naniwa beyond 320 (120 and 220 are pros, 320 is the GS, long story). Shoot, I had forgotten the Naniwa grit ratings run quite a bit finer compared to Shaptons.....oh well :) It'll be a fun experiment I guess (and hopefully not a complete waste of ~80 bucks).

Should I bother getting the Shapton version of the coarse lapping powder or elsewhere? Any recommendation for SiC source?
 
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I use rock polishing media on glass. While researching trying to find something, I just had a hair brained idea, and remembered that I had some coarse to fine powdered media. So thought I'd try it out, and worked perfectly. I bought the stuff many years ago, but don't think I paid more than a few bucks for them. The stuff had just been collecting dust on the shelf because I failed to get my kids interested in rock polishing. It is a long slow process (sometimes a month or more with grit changes between). But for lapping my stones, less than a half teaspoon (sometimes just a pinch) of each grit is pretty much all that's needed. So a little half quart container will last a very long time.

I have been using them for a couple years now, and works great. I start with the finest grit, and finest stone. When finished, I don't bother cleaning up the glass. I just add a little of the next coarseness, and so on. The finer grits just become a non-issue because it's the coarsest grit on the glass that does the work. Then I only have to clean the glass once when finished with all stones.

Edit: Since it's been so long from purchase, I did a quick search online for current prices. Most were around $3-4 per pound. Not too much price difference between different grit levels.
 
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catalystman80 said:
Wow, thank you Heavyhanded, I've gone back to some of the older posts and read you talking about the tile rubbing stone, but the diamond discs sound like a great bang for buck.
Click to expand...

Martin (HH) is very skilled and practiced. I have no doubt about 99% of what he says. This diamond disc might be fantastic. But the tile rubbing stone has some caveats. You have to know what you're doing and you have to have experience and skill in flattening stones to use it. *I* tried to use it on my Nubatama 150 grit stone. I made it much worse. I stopped before it got really bad, but I definitely ended up with a stone that was less flat than the one I started with. This is my lack of skill showing. The tile rubbing stone absolutely cut the Nubatama 150. It's just so small, compared to a standard 8x3 stone, that you have to know what you're doing.

The XXC I've decided is ok up to 320 for my taste, but didn't want to chance it against 120 since it's about the same grit and I didn't want to possibly prematurely wear the XXC out too soon.
Click to expand...

I spoke to Ken Schwartz about using the DMT XXC on my Nubatama 150. He told me to go ahead and do it, and that the life of my DMT would be reduced, but not *destroyed* by doing so. I used the XXC to flatten the 150, got it closer to flat, and stopped. The XXC was essentially unharmed. But I only did it a couple of times. Ken says he's worn out several XXCs in flattening coarse waterstones. But you have to understand that Ken is a waterstone super enthusiast. Here's one measure of that: When we were discussing the XXC, he told me I should have an Atoma 140 instead, since it was a superior flattener. When I complained a little about the price, he told me that he had flattened over 1000 stones with his first 140 and it was still going, though had slightly reduced performance.

Maybe some of that is relevant to your decisions.

Brian.
 
Hey Brian, thanks for your feedback brother. Definitely relevant to the discussion and it enhances my understanding of the theory vs. reality in relation to my skill level. Knowing myself, I'll probably try a number of methods suggested here during the next year as I blow through my fun money :) I have desk job doing lot of strategical thinking and dealing with politics, so sharpening calms me down.

This really could be much ado about nothing as I'm leaning towards just using DMT XXC in the future for all knives (regardless of whether it's the easier 01 or more wear resistant CPM, etc). In reality, never really needed 120 Shapton for my 01, A2, D2, and the like, 320 is plenty to start reprofile for my needs. Instead of buying the Naniwa flattening plate, I should've just gotten the Atoma 140 as a partner XXC level sharpener LOL!
 
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