What Does Rare mean ???

[Timstools]

I know its a subjective question but Id would be interested to hear what others ideas are.
Here is an example, Schrade made over 1 million Schrade LB7s so they are definitely not rare.
Is it then rare if an LB7 is a Limited Edition? My guess is it probably is still not rare, especially when they made up to 10,000 per limited production run and example would be the Indian Cult series of LB7s.

Could mint examples of the 10,000 of a bear cult Indian series be called rare if say for example 9500 of the 10,000 were not in mint condtion but well used and only 500 of the originals were still mint?

Is a knife rare just because its still mint when others are not? does that on its own make a knife rare? Certainly many would say this is true of a very common mass produced knife long since out of production of 50 years plus vintage if it were still in mint condition, so is age apparently is a factor here also?? This would presumably also apply even if many others of the same vintage were still in existence 50 years latter but in very poor condition the mint one is then even more of an exception to the rule although all the others may still exist in some form or other?

Also does lack of availability make a knife rare, for example some knives that are fairly recent (last 10 to 30 years) were made in thousands (say a 3000 limited edition) but they are almost never seen for sale because collectors keep them when they are fortunate enough to find them, does lack of availability on its own also make a knife rare? What is rare?

Interestingly Custom made knives dont appear to attract the label of rare as often becuase they can be made to order, unless of course the maker is well known and passes into antiquity?

Just interested to hear what other peoples thoughts are?

 

[rprocter]

Tim, this is a BRL Forum type question if you want the view of those considered experts by the larger knife community. i visit there every time i visit here and have learned a great deal from BRL in the last year. "try it you'll like it".
from what i have learned so far, mint has nothing to do with the term rare.
they are referring to 2 different things. mint refers to condition, rare refers to it's numbers. so you may have a rare knife in mint condition, but being mint is not the qualifying factor in making it rare.
but that said, i understand your point and there must be some overlap with these two terms.
so what defines rare ? is it strictly subjective ? i have never seen any absolute numbers which qualify as rare.
but these are the early morning rants of a novice ! roland

 

[lrv]

Rare is "if you want one and can't find one"....

As you say its subjective. I agree rare has nothing to do with condition unless its 50yrs old and NIB.

US made 34OT's are not rare. There were 100's of thousands made.
with papers and a box.. were getting close to rare.
With a carbon blade, bone handle and initialed by A.B. that would be rare.
My $.02

 

[thawk]

so what defines rare ? is it strictly subjective ? i have never seen any absolute numbers which qualify as rare.

Rare is extremely subjective. Whether it is knives or meat.

I see rare, extra rare, extremely rare, rare rare rare, and rare as hens teeth used to sell knives. Certainly the use of rare on Ebay is not a standardized description. Especially when used to sell, and not describe a knife.

Certainly lends itself to personal interpretation. And it is easy to type.

wiki: Rare is a word used to denote low numbers of abundance, uncommon, scarce.

Websters: seldom occurring or found : uncommon

 

[Larry303]

Low numbers alone do not denote rareness unless accompanied with Desirability. I have 2 home made knives made by the same person that have no desirability whatsoever so who cares if they are rare in number?<he has made no other knives and I trust he doesn't!>They are in my tackle box and cut fish heads acceptably.
I've just purchased 2 Schrade folding hunters <a single blade and double blade> with brass bolsters and liners absolute mint with Stag handles and intricate designs. The brass bolsters and parts originally came from Imperial and both were made by Herman Williams prior to closure originally to be presented as Club knives and are a 'one of' I believe.They are in the post now.I dont consider them' scarce' I consider them' rare' as they are also highly desirable.
My 3OT which was photographed for Sargents #2 edition I dont consider is scarce I consider it rare as not another example of "perhaps" 12 originally made in 1959 has been photographed or referred to on any Schrade forum. If the other 11 suddenly surface I will consider it 'scarce' as it also has desirability.
All very subjective as beauty and desirability is in the eye of the beholder IMHO. Hoo Roo


P.S. A Chinese Schrade Taylor "Second" would be extremely 'rare' but could be considered even less desirable than an original if that is at all possible.

 

[Codger_64]

I believe the terms "rare", scarce", "uncommon" and desirable all are open to our personal interpretations, much as everyone else has said. In spite of what the dictionary says...

wiki: Rare is a word used to denote low numbers of abundance, uncommon, scarce.

Websters: seldom occurring or found : uncommon

To me the words are not synonyms. A knife can definately be rare and if a lot of them suddenly appear on the market, they are not uncommon. A pattern may have been made by the truckloads and yet be seldom seen, thus be uncommon. Or a design may have been made in small numbers and failed in marketing, therefore seldom used and common on the market being not very desirable. Condition, as BRL often says, indicates only condition though only in the context of an indicator of age, though also certainly a factor in selling prices or there wouldn't be so many "Kentucky Mint" knives out there.

Would a common knife fifty years old in factory condition with all the bling be rare? Hmmm... I think it would be uncommon. Knives like the 2OT produced fifty years ago in small numbers for a short time (18,000 pieces sold total 1959-1964) would indeed be uncommon and desirable. One in as-made condition with packaging would be rare. Also, due to an even smaller number of pieces produced, the Sears version (#9530 Craftsman, 780 pieces produced and shipped only in 1959) would be rare, even more so mint and complete. But not always as desirable as the Schrade Walden version among collectors.But let one appear on SchradeBay with two or three interested collectors vying for it... can you believe the price it fetches? How many of you have one? How many of you who don't have one want one?

Michael

 

[Timstools]

Its obvious to me after hearing some of your replies that although its considered objective some of you guys are experts on what is rare, and have spent a lot of time thinking this through even perhaps unconsiously while collecting, I appreciate hearing your opinion on it.

There does seem to be a common thread and that is the strong relationship between rarety, age and desirability.

Thanks for Sharing.
Tim

 

[lrv]

Tim,
One thing we are all good at is sharing our opinions...
I thought it was a great question.
Thanks

 

[Timstools]

Thanks Larry
Its much easier and simpler to learn from combined experience than having to learn it all slowly by trial and error.
I enjoyed reading that link you posted re knife superstitions, just amazing how many supestitions there are surrounding knives and Black cats, they are both nice.

Rare is "if you want one and can't find one"....

Most of us collectors know how that feels. Actually the one with the rarest collection experiences that frustration more often than those who search for less rare items. Its a hunger more easily satisfied.
Regards Tim

 

[Timstools]

The Search for Rare treasure is Ancient

"There is a mine for silver
and a place where gold is refined.

Iron is taken from the earth,
and copper is smelted from ore.

Man puts an end to the darkness;
he searches the farthest recesses
for ore in the blackest darkness.

Far from where people dwell he cuts a shaft,
in places forgotten by the foot of man;
far from men he dangles and sways.

The earth, from which food comes,
is transformed below as by fire;

sapphires come from its rocks,
and its dust contains nuggets of gold.

No bird of prey knows that hidden path,
no falcon's eye has seen it.

Proud beasts do not set foot on it,
and no lion prowls there.

Man's hand assaults the flinty rock
and lays bare the roots of the mountains.

He tunnels through the rock;
his eyes see all its treasures.

He searches the sources of the rivers
and brings hidden things to light".

 

[brady806]

to me, rare is a 162ot