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What does "strong" mean?
- Thread starter lsstaipei
- Start date
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- Nov 17, 1999
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- 676
strong = mix between toughness and flexibility.
unhardened steel like 5160 will be best in this departement.. but then, it still needs to cut. So a compromis.. the better edgeholding, the worse tougnness...
But some steel can still be hardened hader and still be tough (like BG-42).. so given a consistent hardness, some steel can be stronger.
Greetz, bart.
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"If the world wouldn't SUCK, we'd all fall off !
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unhardened steel like 5160 will be best in this departement.. but then, it still needs to cut. So a compromis.. the better edgeholding, the worse tougnness...
But some steel can still be hardened hader and still be tough (like BG-42).. so given a consistent hardness, some steel can be stronger.
Greetz, bart.
------------------
"If the world wouldn't SUCK, we'd all fall off !
You can E-mail me at bart.weijs@student.kuleuven.ac.be any
time....guaranteed reply !
Member of the BKS
<A HREF="http://www.student.kuleuven.ac.be/~m9710483/index.html" TARGET=_blank>My
knife-page</A>
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2001
- Messages
- 1,981
One definition for strength I've seen is the resistance to being bent. Toughness then, would be the ability to be bent without breaking or losing the ability to function as a knife.
Best example is the bladesmith testing system. An applicant must provide a knife with approximately a 10" blade. That blade must prove difficult to bend. But, once bent, it must go to 90 degrees without breaking, other than perhaps cracks on the edge. The need of a pipe before blending a blade is evidence of its strength.
SOmething like that.
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Asi es la vida
Bugs
Best example is the bladesmith testing system. An applicant must provide a knife with approximately a 10" blade. That blade must prove difficult to bend. But, once bent, it must go to 90 degrees without breaking, other than perhaps cracks on the edge. The need of a pipe before blending a blade is evidence of its strength.
SOmething like that.
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Asi es la vida
Bugs
- Joined
- Jan 4, 1999
- Messages
- 3,000
Strong isn't a term that has any meaning in describing steel and I'd recommend ignoring any comments that relate to strength in a knife blade. Hardness or toughness or abrasion resistance etc. do have meaning. I think you just got confused by a poor choice of words. Take care.
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Fred
Knife Outlet
http://www.knifeoutlet.com
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Fred
Knife Outlet
http://www.knifeoutlet.com
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- 2,259
Two possibilities:
1. What is called "strength" is actually tensil strength, or how hard it can be pulled before it will be pulled apart. This is a quantitative measure usually given by how many pounds a 1" square will hold before breaking.
2. A knife or blade is strong if you can't break it, or can't break it easily. For those with even higher standards, it is strong if Cliff Stamp can't break it
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Jason aka medusaoblongata
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"Is not giving a need? Is not receiving mercy?" - Thus Spoke Zarathustra
"Cutting his throat is only a momentary pleasure and is bound to get you talked about." - Lazarus Long
"Knowledge is not made for understanding; it is made for cutting." - Michel Foucault
1. What is called "strength" is actually tensil strength, or how hard it can be pulled before it will be pulled apart. This is a quantitative measure usually given by how many pounds a 1" square will hold before breaking.
2. A knife or blade is strong if you can't break it, or can't break it easily. For those with even higher standards, it is strong if Cliff Stamp can't break it
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Jason aka medusaoblongata
-----------------------
"Is not giving a need? Is not receiving mercy?" - Thus Spoke Zarathustra
"Cutting his throat is only a momentary pleasure and is bound to get you talked about." - Lazarus Long
"Knowledge is not made for understanding; it is made for cutting." - Michel Foucault
Cliff Stamp
BANNED
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- Oct 5, 1998
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- 17,562
lsstaipei
Strength and toughness are for the most part inversely related quantities in steels. When you increase one you tend to decrease the other. Strength is the ability to resist deformation under a slow loading process. It is very important to have a strong blade if you intend it for prying or for heavy torques, and even for edge holding as if the steel is weak the edge will just roll readily.
Strength is almost directly related to hardness for a particular steel in that as you increase the hardness you directly increase the strength. There are exceptions to this though, some steels have particular tempering behavior and can see grain refinement at lower RC which can actually increase the strength. As well, hardness and strength do not correlate well across steels because many alloy elements can cause significant changes in strength with little or no change in RC.
It is easy to understand the difference between strength and toughness. Take a 3/16" file and put it in a vice and lean into it getting a feel for how much force it can take. It will be decently strong. Now lay the file on a concrete floor and pop it with a hammer. It will shatter easily. It is very strong, but not very tough. Now get a piece of mild steel and do the same. You will find the opposite. You can bend it very readily because it is very weak. However you cannot fracture it readily because it is very tough.
-Cliff
Strength and toughness are for the most part inversely related quantities in steels. When you increase one you tend to decrease the other. Strength is the ability to resist deformation under a slow loading process. It is very important to have a strong blade if you intend it for prying or for heavy torques, and even for edge holding as if the steel is weak the edge will just roll readily.
Strength is almost directly related to hardness for a particular steel in that as you increase the hardness you directly increase the strength. There are exceptions to this though, some steels have particular tempering behavior and can see grain refinement at lower RC which can actually increase the strength. As well, hardness and strength do not correlate well across steels because many alloy elements can cause significant changes in strength with little or no change in RC.
It is easy to understand the difference between strength and toughness. Take a 3/16" file and put it in a vice and lean into it getting a feel for how much force it can take. It will be decently strong. Now lay the file on a concrete floor and pop it with a hammer. It will shatter easily. It is very strong, but not very tough. Now get a piece of mild steel and do the same. You will find the opposite. You can bend it very readily because it is very weak. However you cannot fracture it readily because it is very tough.
-Cliff
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2000
- Messages
- 8,888
Cliff & Isstaipei--
Thank you both.
Just printed out Cliff's responses to Isstaipei's questions regarding strength and toughness (from the other thread).
Cliff, I think you've answered these questions so many times that you've honed your insight and explanation ability to a razor. Very sharp, cuts right to the point.
Your answers are so clear at the moment I read them, and yet with the passage of time, I can always use a refresher. I know the next time I read one of your "explanations in a crucible", I'll enjoy it just as much, even though I've heard them many times by now.
Isstaipei--thanks for asking.
Best to you both--Will
Thank you both.
Just printed out Cliff's responses to Isstaipei's questions regarding strength and toughness (from the other thread).
Cliff, I think you've answered these questions so many times that you've honed your insight and explanation ability to a razor. Very sharp, cuts right to the point.
Your answers are so clear at the moment I read them, and yet with the passage of time, I can always use a refresher. I know the next time I read one of your "explanations in a crucible", I'll enjoy it just as much, even though I've heard them many times by now.
Isstaipei--thanks for asking.
Best to you both--Will