What EXACTLY is Concealed or Open carry?

[NDJeep]

Did a fair amount of "searching" but didnt get real clarification.

I have my states knife carry law summary right in front of me. In North Dakota(which is a pretty knife friendly state, btw) it says I can carry folding and fixed blades that are under 5" blade length concealed.

It also says I can carry ANYTHING open carry including dirks, daggers, stillettos, balis, AND autos. Not sure I'd wanna try that "freedom" out though taking a chance on some uninformed patrolman.

But...if I carry a folder in my pocket, say an auto...is it considered open if you can see any part of the knife like the clip? I've read where that is the case.

Open carry seems pretty WIDE OPEN as far as whats allowed here. But what is OPEN exactly? Is having any part of a knife exposed where you can tell its a knife sufficient?

Thanks.

 

[Gollnick]

It varies from state to state.

 

[mdauben]

But...if I carry a folder in my pocket, say an auto...is it considered open if you can see any part of the knife like the clip? I've read where that is the case.

While I have never made an exhaustive examination of knife laws, the ones I have read do little or nothing to define what is concealed and what is open. This, unfortunatly, leaves that up to the LEO. To be safe, I would consider anything in your pocket (clip showing or not) or in a belt pouch as "concealed" since I have heard of LEOs making just that call.

Not saying it would hold up in court or not, but it could be good enough to get you a ride back to the station if the LEO wanted to be a hard ass about it.

 

[RyanMM]

The law is most likely intended for knives in sheaths hanging from belts out in the countryside. Of course any interaction with a police officer on the matter is subject to his discretion and knowledge of--or lack thereof--the law. Theoretically if he can spot it then it's not concealed. He can't see a pocket clip and demand to search you then charge you for concealing it. It would still be a huge inconvenience but you're free to make that decision.

 

[NDJeep]

Yeah, thanks M.
I forgot to mention the "pouch" angle. That too was gonna be part of my question.
Are clearly exposed pouched knives open or concealed???

Also, not true "carry" related but a sheathed large knife in a vehicle glove box.....OK??? Its concealed, but not on my person.


While I respect "most" LEOs, I do carry a copy of my states knife carry law printed out in all my vehicles.

 

[knarfeng]

There's an entire forum dedicated to knife laws. This does not belong in GF.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=735

 

[NDJeep]

Sorry...my bad. Should have expected there be a dedicated place for this...just didnt see it.

Been several years since I've been a member here.

 

[RyanMM]

There was a guy in a math class at my college who always had a belt pouch with a leatherman in it. I actually don't remember the rules but I doubt knives were encouraged in Portland, Oregon (blue state.) Nobody ever seemed to mind as far as I know. Most people don't seem to bat an eye at belt pouches since it's probably just a multitool or a cell phone even. The man in question did tuck in his shirts, though. Based on my observations I would feel comfortable with that carry method.

 

[mdauben]

Are clearly exposed pouched knives open or concealed???

I certainly would not think so, but if an LEO is looking for a reason to hassle you, he could make that claim. Heck, I have heard stories (possibly urban myths, but possibly not) of LEOs claiming that a knife being in a sheath or a gun in a holster qualifed as concealed! Now, obviously that is total nonsense, and would never hold up in court, but it could still make for an unpleasant uncounter.

Also, not true "carry" related but a sheathed large knife in a vehicle glove box.....OK??? Its concealed, but not on my person.

Honestly, I'm not sure. Most laws seem to use some variation of the verbage "concealed about his person" which would seem to exclude things in your car. Certainly some areas have special laws regading the carrying of guns in your car, but I have never seen any such that specifically address blades.

While I respect "most" LEOs, I do carry a copy of my states knife carry law printed out in all my vehicles.

Oh, I do too! I have some good friends who are LEOs and I respect that all of them potentially put themselves on the line for the rest of us. Still they are humans, too, and some of them can be jerks or even just be having a bad day, so I try to avoid giving them any excuse to hassle me.

 

[Phillip Dobson]

There was a guy in a math class at my college who always had a belt pouch with a leatherman in it. I actually don't remember the rules but I doubt knives were encouraged in Portland, Oregon (blue state.) Nobody ever seemed to mind as far as I know. Most people don't seem to bat an eye at belt pouches since it's probably just a multitool or a cell phone even. The man in question did tuck in his shirts, though. Based on my observations I would feel comfortable with that carry method.

Oregon actually has fairly relaxed knife laws (much more than here in Montana). It may be an economic-related decision; just look at all the manufacturers that call the state home.

 

[Cauldra]

Yeah, thanks M.
I forgot to mention the "pouch" angle. That too was gonna be part of my question.
Are clearly exposed pouched knives open or concealed???

Also, not true "carry" related but a sheathed large knife in a vehicle glove box.....OK??? Its concealed, but not on my person.


While I respect "most" LEOs, I do carry a copy of my states knife carry law printed out in all my vehicles.

I would expect that if it is in a pouch that it is open, but it it is covered by a shirt...IDK. As in the car, I want to say I read this, but I could be wrong, if it is within reach it is considered concealed carry. Even it it is in the glove box or divider. Again I could be wrong about that.

 

[RyanMM]

Oregon actually has fairly relaxed knife laws (much more than here in Montana). It may be an economic-related decision; just look at all the manufacturers that call the state home.

That's true, even including Leatherman. I just meant that he had his multitool in a belt pouch around the college campus and in class, which is free to make it's own rules about restrictions.

 

[antonio_luiz]

Open applies to sheath or pouch carry (if plainly visible). Concealed = in pocket or neck knife under shirt, but also applies if a belt sheath or pouch is covered by a coat. Generally, vehicle carry in glovebox or door pocket = concealed as well. - unless the compartment is locked = secured. Whether or not you get grief from security or a LEO will depend on a lot of other factors including location (eg shopping centre; sports stadium; bar...) and the way you look and act. Just use discretion and commonsense about what you carry where and don't attract attention to yourself.

 

[jurisprudence]

As Gollnick pointed out previously, the answer varies from state to state. Most, if not all, states have statutes prohibiting carrying concealed weapons. In many states, pocket knives have some sort of exemption (either in the statute or through case law) from the definition of “weapons.” In general, it is better to know what types of knives are not considered “weapons” for purposes of CCW rather than relying on “open” or “plain view” carry, because in many states “partially concealed” constitutes “concealed” for purposes of CCW.

By way of example, in Ohio the courts have held that partially concealed weapon is “concealed.”

A weapon need not be completely invisible to be concealed for purposes of carrying a concealed weapon’s statute. State v. Almalik. Indeed, a partially concealed weapon constitutes a “concealed” weapon within the meaning of the statute. However, the test for determining whether a weapon, including a “partially concealed” weapon, is concealed for purposes of the statute is stated in Coker:

“It is not necessary to prove that the shotgun was carried in such manner or in such location as to give absolutely no notice of its presence under any kind of observation. Rather, it is sufficient to support a conviction of carrying a concealed weapon to prove only that ordinary observation would give no notice of its presence. This is a question of fact to be resolved by the trier of fact. There must be an evidentiary basis established by the proof upon which the jury could find that the weapon was concealed.”

Thus, a weapon is concealed if “ordinary observation would give no notice of its presence.” (“ * * * a weapon is concealed if it is so situated as not to be discernible by ordinary observation by those near enough to see it if it were not concealed.&#8221.

So, what does all this mean? It is a fact sensitive determination. The type of knife, clip, color, and even clothes worn may impact a judgment of whether a knife is concealed or not. This brings me back to my earlier point that it is better to carry a knife that is not considered a weapon under your state’s CCW law than relying on “plain view.”

Regarding vehicle carry, again the answer depends on state law. Some states’ CCW statutes prohibit carrying concealed weapons on one’s person while other statutes prohibit carrying concealed weapons on one’s person or vehicle.