What freehand sharpening stones do I need?

Z

zerozappa

Joined
Aug 19, 2000
Messages
80

OK all you fanatics, I've been sharpening w/a Spyderco tri-angle for some time - and can get a nice, sharp edge.. I've read the faq, and I've read a lot of the zillions of threads on sharpening...

I'm ready to take the plunge and attempt freehand sharpening (I've got the razor's edge book on the way), and I've got some equipment questions for the hairless out there...

If you had to put together a complete set of stones, from coarse to fine, which would they be?

I would like to have what I need in order to handle knives up to 12", and for all kinds of steels - ATS34, to talonite, to tool steels, etc...whatever you can think of.

I'm willing to spend money on what I need to have a good, complete set, but I don't want to spend more than I have to. However, if it's gonna take me a year to say, put a new angle on a knife, I'd rather buy a rough stone that can go ahead and take the metal off to save time...

So far, there are several options that I've found:

- Natural Arizona stones (with or without oil). I've read that even the hard stones don't remove steel as much as the synthetic stones.

- synthetic stones (like those from spyderco). These are supposed to be better than natural stones - maybe because you can get them in precise grits at several levels. And maybe also because they take steel off better than the natural Arizona stones??

- DMT diamond stones - Used for really removing metal. But, there's Extra-Fine, Fine, Coarse, and Extra-Coarse...so which would I need if I want to remove a little more metal???

Right now, I'm thinking that one DMT for serious metal removal, one synthetic coarse stone, one synthetic fine stone - topped off with a leather strop may do the job...

What stone set would you want?

Which manufacturer/brand of stones?

Where can get them at the best prices?

Thanks in advance.

-- ZZ
 
First of all, if you are going to spend some bucks, don't go for anything less than 8" stones, especially since you are going to sharpen long (12") knives on this equipment. I have the Razor's edge Pro kit (comes with everything but the wood case and book) and I love that gear. The coarse stone sets the edge very quickly. They do wear faster than other stones though. Not as fast as a water stone, but faster than an Arkansas stone (what you are calling an Arizona stone). I haven't any experience with any diamond stones, but I know that if I were to buy a diamond stone I likely would only buy DMT (monocrystaline versus polycrystaline thing.) You may only need the x-coarse DMT and a fine stone- a medium wouldn't serve much purpose. I don't know how the Razor's Edge stones do on talonite (anyone got a talonite knife they want to donate?) but they rip through ATS-34 with no problem. The coarse stone is quite coarse though. It leaves many little scratches on the edge, but they polish out with the fine stone. I thonk a more economical way to go would be to find a Norton Silicon-Carbide stone (I think they are called Norton Crystalon stones) for your rough stone and then get a Spyderco ceramic bench stone (the white one) for your fine stone. Silicon-Carbide stones are coarser than Aluminum-Oxide stones and the carbides are extremely abrasive and so those stones work well on even hard steels like ats-34 or the CPM stuff.

Anymore questions just e-mail me ar:
rejmke@uleth.ca

good luck!

------------------
"Come What May..."
 
i almost forgot! Get a steel. I have an f.Dick steel and the Razor's Edge folding steel (both smooth) and love 'em. I find that seeling my aTS-34 blades even makes a niticable difference. Just why it does so I am debating with Phil Wilson, but I find that there is a difference. I would recommend either one, but I use my Razor's Edge steel a lot more. Go with a smooth one.

------------------
"Come What May..."
 
Thanks for the great info -

I've found where to get the Spyderco 2x8" Fine Grit bench stone, but I haven't been able to find anyone selling Norton Crystalon stones...only the Norton Aluminum Oxide ones ...

Any idea where to get them?

--ZZ

 
I would go with a full set of DMTs.
Extra course to extra fine. This should cover all of your bases.

Paul
 
Norton sells a few stones from their web site, and as I recall the silicon carbide combination stone is one of them. Norton also makes nice looking diamond stones but they don't sell them from their site. Silicon carbide stones will dish more readily than others, not nearly as bad as waterstones, but a set of three can be used to flatten each other and other stones as well. I'm currently using a set of three 7in stones that I got at Sears for about $6 each, and while the system works nicely for regular steels I'm also looking at a coarse diamond stone for some of the harder/tougher steels. I tried out a Norton combination India stone but found that the silicon carbide works faster. I have a small ceramic stone that works like the sticks, putting on a nice finish but loading quickly when used dry.
 
I would go for the diamonds. 8" to 12" long. One coarse (or medium coarse) and one fine (or extra fine). The diamonds will restore a fine edge to even the carbide rich CPM steels. Combined with your ceramic sticks you should be in good shape. I would also get a strop. On one side use green chromium oxide polishing compound and the other side bare leather. A smooth steel is another good resource. A coarse silicon carbide stone can be useful for hogging off material from a very dull blade. I use the narrow side of the stone and very heavy pressure for rough sharpening. It saves my coarse diamond hone.
 
Hearing that other very experienced sharpeners use a silicon carbide stone to 'save' a diamond stone confirms a concern that I've had, is why I've not purchased a larger diamond stone so far. I have a credit card sized diamond sharpening stone that came in handy when I needed to sharpen a number of very dull knives that my brother had, but the short amount of use also produced quite a bit of wear on the stone. Still it was very useful as the Spyderco sharpener that he had was pretty slow on the rough work, although the Spyderco did very well otherwise. I'll still probably try to find a Norton diamond stone as they make good industrial stuff.
 
Zerozappa,
I have some experience with both DMT Diamond Whetstones and SPYDERCO ceramic Bench Stones.
Crayola is right, get at least 8" long stones if you are going to sharpen blades up to 12" in length.

I could recommend you one of these two sets:
1. DMT x-coarse (black) and coarse (blue) Diamond Whetstones for edge profiling and damaged edge restoring and SPYDERCO Bench Stones in Medium (brown), Fine (white) and Ultra Fine (also white) grit. And you will never need stropping!
2. All four DMT grits and SPYDERCO fine and ultra fine stones.
Think either set could satisfy all your free hand sharpening needs completely.
In my opinion it is not a good idea to "jump" over certain grit in sharpening stone set. If you will turn to fine grit directly after x-coarse it will be quite hard and time absorbing job to obtain well honed edge.


------------------
Sergiusz Mitin
gunwriter
Lodz, Poland
 
For re-profiling edges, there's nothing like the x-coarse DMT 6"x2" (or bigger) hone. You absolutely must have one!

Beyond that, you can get the rest of the DMT line (coarse, fine, x-fine). Or, to save on cash and wear, get some ceramic hones in medium & fine. I like the Spyderco 8"x2" hones.

At the super fine end, pick up an 8000 grit Japanese water hone. If you're in the habit of razor polishing your edges, you won't believe what this thing can do.

Joe
jat@cup.hp.com
 

As far as the diamond stones go, there are the regular stones and there are the duo-sharp stones with a different grit on each side.

This may be a dumb question, but are the regular stones dual sided with the same grit on both sides???

The reason I'm asking is because there was an advertisement that said "Choose an 8" or 10" DuoSharp whetstone and get up to 6 times more surface area than with a 6" stone"

With the 6x2 stones, you have 12 square inches per side.

With the 10x4 stones, you get 40 square inches per side, for a total of 80 square inches.

The only way to say that you have up to 6 times more surface area with the 10 over the 6 is if the 6" is single sided...

Also, do the diamond stones dish and allow you to sharpen when the stone wears, or is the diamond coating only on the surface where once the surface coating wears away, then you just throw the stone away?

Thanks,
-ZZ
 
ZeroZappa, please see my post about diamond stones addressed to Joe T and others for more discussion on diamond stones. Your post got me to post my question and we've been putting together the ultimate freehand sharpening gear set on that post! Just what you wanted to know. Anyways, on the regular DMT stones the stones are single sided. There are new stones, I believe called duosharp, which are double sided bench stones. They also have double sided portable "stones" that have plastic handles which fold over the stone for storage, kind of like a balisong ("butterfly knife")

The stones do not dish out. The diamonds are bonded to a steel plate with a nickel bonding and this steel plate is imbedded in a plastic base. The Plastic base takes up most of the stone's thickness as the plate is thin and need not be thick at all. When used freehand, there will be an initial wear period where loose diamonds will flake off and the stone will feel smoother but will still cut very aggressively. Again, it won't dish out so that is a plus and you can use it to true (flatten) other stones since diamonds are the hardest stuff we have found in the universe. So, even they require the largest initial layout in cash, they give the most bang for the buck. In an old Bladen't catalog (www.knife.com) I saw that you could order 12" DMT diamond stones!!!! Worth looking into.

Also, there is a difference in DMT and other stones. DMT uses monocrystaline stones where others use polycrystaline. I do not have the resource on hand with the explanation ont he difference, but monocrystaline hones are superior to polycrystaline hones and DMT uses only monocrystaline hones.

Drop me an e-mail or joe Talmadge an e-mail for more info.

------------------
"Come What May..."
 
ZZ,
Please follow the link in my previous post, there I have described how diamond whetstone is built, how it works and how it wears.
 
I agree the DMT coarse and extra coarse are very nice, but just try ablack silicon carbide hone from Sears for $8.00, 7"x2". Works just as well and I have had no dishing out problem with them.
 
ONE- an ezelap 72F 8" fine. It will do 80% of your sharpening, finish off with a strop if you want a polished edge, the diamonds give a nice aggresive edge if not stropped.

for "reprofiling" a DMT extra-course Benchstone.
Those two stones will do all your sharpening needs and last a lifetime
Be safe,
Chad
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top