What have I got here fellas? Sorry another Mark 2 question

[Doug_86]

I apologize as you Camillus experts are probably tired of guys like me wanting to know about these knives.

Is it WWII or post? Repro or real?

 

[zzyzzogeton]

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that this is a late-middle WW2 period knife. An "early pinned pommel" with blade markings from before they shifted to the guard. The grind of the swedge is "long", extending aft passed the forward edge of the fuller, which is what I have been told is an identifying mark of the WW2 versions. I was told that later reproduction versions had a "short" swedge grind, which meets the spine well short of the fuller. The following picture of a reproduction 1219C2 with the same markings as your knife shows the short swedge grind. The reproduction sheaths have the EGA symbol stamped into them, which the originals never did.

 

[MerryMadMonk]

More info in this thread:

Thats very interesting. I've never heard of one being issued that late. Thanks for sharing that.

Yes the WWII USMC & USN versions are different knives. The USMC Fighting Utility Knife 1219C2 and the USN Mark 2 (394831) were marked differently. Kabar was the first to make the 1219C2 Fighting Utility knife in WW II. The blade was a common Kabar design they had been making from the 1930's perhaps even before that. The knife was made beefier in the blade width and the grooves were added to the handles but the blade profile with the large ricasso area and the fuller are all pure Kabar commercial design. Kabar made the knives first and also had the first contract in 1942. Camillus did not have a contract until 4 or 5 months later in 1943. Camillus did have the first Navy contract.

World War Two production by Camillus is marked either U.S.N. or U.S.N. over Mark 2 on the left ricasso and CAMILLUS, N.Y. on the right side. The Marine version is marked U.S.M.C. on the left and CAMILLUS, N.Y. on the right. They can also be marked on the guard U.S.N. over MARK 2 over CAMILLUS, N.Y. or U.S.M.C. over CAMILLUS, N.Y. But all WW2 production is marked either to the Navy or Marines. Production by all makers of these stopped in 1945. When production restarted in 1961 by Utica, all are marked with US over the maker name.

When Camillus started production in 1962 , the markings were not specific to a service - therefore they are marked simply U.S. over CAMILLUS, N.Y. until 1974 and U.S. over CAMILLUS after that. The new series of knives made by Utica, Camillus, Conetta, MSI and Ontario are properly called Knife, Combat (Military Specification MIL-K-20227 with a number of minor amendments).

Therefore: Early WW2 marked on the ricasso with maker and service (either USN or USMC) and in 1944 changed to marked on the guard, still with maker and service. Production of these stopped in 1945. When production restarted in 1961 by Utica, all are marked with US over the maker name. Camillus used CAMILLUS, N.Y. until early 1974 then dropped the NY. All of the other makers are simply US over the maker name.

The source for all this information is Frank Trzaska & Gary Cunningham.

Bill