what if I Carry a Spyderco Tenacious in Chicago?

[autoopen]

I understand that 3" blades are legal carry in Illinois but my question is what would happen practically if an LEO saw my 3.38" Tenacious?

Would I be arrested on the spot and if so, for what? Would they just question me about why I was carrying it? Would they confiscate it? Or would it only get ugly if I had to pull it in a self defense situation?

 

[MORIMOTOM]

I understand that 3" blades are legal carry in Illinois but my question is what would happen practically if an LEO saw my 3.38" Tenacious?

based on these sections of the illinois criminal code:

Illinois Criminal Code 720 ILCS 5/24-1. Unlawful Use of
Weapons. (a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use
of weapons when he knowingly... (2) Carries or possesses
with intent to use the same unlawfully against another, a
dagger, dirk, billy, dangerous knife, razor, stiletto,
broken bottle or other piece of glass... or any other
dangerous or deadly weapon of like character...
- 720 ILCS 5/33A-1... A person is considered armed with a
dangerous weapon... when he carries on or about his person
or is otherwise armed with a category I or category II
weapon. (b) A category I weapon is a [firearm or] a knife
with a blade at least 3 inches in length, dagger, dirk,
switchblade knife, stiletto, or any other deadly or
dangerous weapon of like character.

Would I be arrested on the spot and if so, for what?

maybe. you may be arrested for the above section.

Would they just question me about why I was carrying it?

maybe. but arrest may follow.

Would they confiscate it?

maybe. if you are arrested, the knife would most likely get booked as evidence.

Or would it only get ugly if I had to pull it in a self defense situation?

it would definitely get ugly under these circumstances.


i won't speculate as to what a hypothetical officer will actually do. according to the text, the tenacious is illegal to carry. if you choose to carry an illegal item, you do so with some risk.

 

[AbnInfantry]

I understand that 3" blades are legal carry in Illinois but my question is what would happen practically if an LEO saw my 3.38" Tenacious?

Your title for this thread asked about carrying a Tenacious in Chicago. The Chicago Municipal Code is more restrictive than the Illinois state statute. Chicago Municipal Code § 8-24-020 prohibits concealed carry by most private citizens of any knife with a blade length greater than two and a half inches, not three inches. For persons 18 years of age or younger, the blade length must be under two inches. At age 18, you're old enough to legally vote in Chicago but not carry a pocketknife with a two-inch blade.

I'm mentioning this so folks don't get the wrong idea and think the "legal" blade length in Chicago is 3 inches.

 

[Watchful]

Chicago police have tended, in my experience, to be pretty leniant about knives as long as you're intelligent: but if you look like a punk, act like a punk, or wear your knife as a weapon...that situation will change fast. I'm sure that's not the case for you of course. :thumbup:

The Tenacious is, however, a very borderline knife. Technically, it's more than three inches, although not be much. However, the width of the blade makes it look less tool-like and more weapon-like. I'd say look for a different knife to wear when actually inside the city.

Not to say you will have problems--as Morimotom says, there's a lot of maybes with this one. But I'd say the knife would attract some attention.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

Your title for this thread asked about carrying a Tenacious in Chicago. The Chicago Municipal Code is more restrictive than the Illinois state statute. Chicago Municipal Code § 8-24-020 prohibits concealed carry by most private citizens of any knife with a blade length greater than two and a half inches, not three inches. For persons 18 years of age or younger, the blade length must be under two inches. At age 18, you're old enough to legally vote in Chicago but not carry a pocketknife with a two-inch blade.

I'm mentioning this so folks don't get the wrong idea and think the "legal" blade length in Chicago is 3 inches.

the above is an important distinction. being in chicago (or any city that restricts beyond the state law) you are subject to both state and municipal laws.

it should also be noted that a 3" is not legal. it must be under 3" based on the letter of the law.

 

[AbnInfantry]

The Tenacious is, however, a very borderline knife. Technically, it's more than three inches, although not be much.

[...sigh...] I'll try this again.

Chicago Municipal Code § 8-24-020. Carrying dangerous weapons. ... No person shall carry concealed on or about his person a pistol, revolver, derringer or other firearm or dagger, dirk, stiletto, bowie knife, commando knife, any blade of which is released by a spring mechanism, including knives as known "switch-blades" or any other type or kind of knife, any blade of which is more than two and one-half inches in length, ordinary razor or other dangerous weapon except that no person 18 years of age or under shall carry concealed on or about his person, any knife, the blade of which is two inches in length or longer.

Spyderco will soon be producing their "Chicago" model specifically designed to comply with Chicago's (careful, AbnInfantry, don't write what you want to) statute limiting pocketknives to a maximum length of 2.5 inches (and then only if you're 19 or older).

the above is an important distinction. being in chicago (or any city that restricts beyond the state law) you are subject to both state and municipal laws.

That's right. :thumbup:

 

[autoopen]

I really am confused... if the laws are even stricter in the City of Chicago, why can I go to any number of sporting goods stores in the city and buy a near 4" Endura or a CRKT M21-14 or any number of other knives (folders and fixed)??? If the laws are the way you guys are describing them isn't ANY person that buys a knife at a store subject to immediate arrest upon taking possession of these "DANGEROUS WEAPONS"!?! Why don't the police setup stings outside local Chicago Sports Authority stores because I'm sure they could catch lots of "criminals" in possession of illegal dangerous weapons... Why are these Chicago stores even allowed to sell illegal knives to unsuspecting customers that don't know the laws but assume that since they can buy them freely, they can carry them freely... Seriously, WTF is going on here with these laws and how they are enforced?

 

[MORIMOTOM]

I really am confused... if the laws are even stricter in the City of Chicago, why can I go to any number of sporting goods stores in the city and buy a near 4" Endura or a CRKT M21-14 or any number of other knives (folders and fixed)??? If the laws are the way you guys are describing them isn't ANY person that buys a knife at a store subject to immediate arrest upon taking possession of these "DANGEROUS WEAPONS"!?! Why don't the police setup stings outside local Chicago Sports Authority stores because I'm sure they could catch lots of "criminals" in possession of illegal dangerous weapons... Why are these Chicago stores even allowed to sell illegal knives to unsuspecting customers that don't know the laws but assume that since they can buy them freely, they can carry them freely... Seriously, WTF is going on here with these laws and how they are enforced?

i dont know if that is the case, at least regarding the availability of those particular knives.

laws regarding weapons often only apply to carry methods. simple possession or ownership is not in and of itself illegal. that is how the wording of the state section is presented.

in other words, because something is illegal to carry, does not necessarily make it illegal to own. the easiest comparison is to firearms. legal to own, but in most areas illegal to carry without a cwp. states should also provide provisions for lawful use and carry (ie, recreation, to and from, etc) and transport.


we aren't trying to annoy or frustrate you, just provide an interpretation of the relevant laws.

 

[AbnInfantry]

I really am confused... if the laws are even stricter in the City of Chicago, why can I go to any number of sporting goods stores in the city and buy a near 4" Endura or a CRKT M21-14 or any number of other knives (folders and fixed)???

If you'd read the statute, you'll see it doesn't prohibit the sale of pocketknives with blades longer than a certain length but the concealed carry except by designated government employees and persons in certain occupations. Stores often sell items which may be illegal for lowly private citizens to either carry, carry concealed or even possess. As I mentioned in other threads, in late 1973 I bought a Bianchi aluminum baton at a men's clothing store (which also sold police uniforms/equipment) for use in my job as a security officer at a California sugar refinery. It was a year or two later while studying Criminal Law in college that I discovered it's a felony in California for a non-LEO to merely possess a billy club. This was beyond my comprehension, but it was still the law. My ignorance of the ludicrous statute (which none of the attorneys I knew were aware of) wouldn't have helped me in court had a LEO arrested me for unwittingly committing a felony. Police in California definitely arrest people for simply possessing a billy club even if the owner had no idea the object he possessed was illegal or could be construed as being a billy club.

If the laws are the way you guys are describing them

Don't blindly accept what I'm "describing." Read the statute for yourself. It only takes a few seconds to find doing a Google search.

isn't ANY person that buys a knife at a store subject to immediate arrest upon taking possession of these "DANGEROUS WEAPONS"!?!

It's not mere "possession"; it's concealed carry.

Why don't the police setup stings outside local Chicago Sports Authority stores because I'm sure they could catch lots of "criminals" in possession of illegal dangerous weapons...

I'm not going to address that question on this board.

Why are these Chicago stores even allowed to sell illegal knives to unsuspecting customers that don't know the laws but assume that since they can buy them freely, they can carry them freely...

Because the knives are not "illegal" to own or possess. It's "concealed carry" of such "dangerous weapons" which is a crime in enlightened Chicago. Plus, many government employees and a small number of designated private citizens may carry such knives concealed.

Judges expect every person to be aware of every law they're subject to (although no human being has read every federal, state and local criminal statute; most folks have no idea how many there are). At sentencing hearings, judges frequently declare, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse," even if they hadn't been aware of the statute and/or applicable case law until the matter reached them.

Seriously, WTF is going on here with these laws and how they are enforced?

You're welcome to e-mail me but I'm not going to respond to that question on this board. I know what would ensue.

 

[rifon2]

The question for me would be - is it worth carrying the Tenacious considering the real possibility of arrest & a resulting criminal record for doing so?

My answer would be "no".

 

[glistam]

With the law well covered by other posts, may I humbly suggest a Boker Subcom or one of its siblings? Just under 2", one-handed thumb-stub opening, easy to grip, and under $30. Just sayin'. It's my goto for restrictive areas like Fed property or cities like Chicago.

 

[artmichalek]

Why don't the police setup stings outside local Chicago Sports Authority stores because I'm sure they could catch lots of "criminals" in possession of illegal dangerous weapons...

Maybe they're too busy hanging out in front of cooking stores busting people for chef's knives? Most states have transportation/recreation clauses, which allow your legally possessed knife to be taken in an out of the city for use. It's pretty clear if you're also carrying a bunch of fishing gear, or are walking out of a shop with the knife in a sealed box with a recipt, but there's zero guidance for something like transporting knives between private residences.

Why are these Chicago stores even allowed to sell illegal knives to unsuspecting customers that don't know the laws but assume that since they can buy them freely, they can carry them freely... Seriously, WTF is going on here with these laws and how they are enforced?

Because they are legal to possess, stores have a right to sell them. And like most people who feel very self entitled about their rights, a lot of shop owners don't acknowledge any associated responsibility. The right thing to do would be more upfront with customers about which products can be carried where and under what circumstances, but that might cost some sales.

 

[eighty eight]

As with any laws that restrict self defense with a weapon, you must weigh out how valuable your life or your loved ones lives are to you. The police do a good job given the cards they are delt, but they are usually on the scene after the fact. As for Chicago police, I have never been bothered even when I carry a fixed blade on my belt. The choice is yours.

 

[TOM1960]

i dont know if that is the case, at least regarding the availability of those particular knives.

laws regarding weapons often only apply to carry methods. simple possession or ownership is not in and of itself illegal. that is how the wording of the state section is presented.

in other words, because something is illegal to carry, does not necessarily make it illegal to own. the easiest comparison is to firearms. legal to own, but in most areas illegal to carry without a cwp. states should also provide provisions for lawful use and carry (ie, recreation, to and from, etc) and transport.


we aren't trying to annoy or frustrate you, just provide an interpretation of the relevant laws.

The problem of getting it from the store where the purchase was made to your home would have to be addressed by case law. As this statute is written, just driving or walking home with your newly purchased knife would be a criminal offense. In my own anti-weapons state of Massachusetts, the standard advice given by cutlery dealers is to leave it in its original box along with the receipt, put in an area of your vehicle that is not readily accessible to driver or passenger (similar to FOPA) and go straight home. We do have exceptions for knives carried for employment or sporting use. When I have my 7" Rapala fishing knife in my vehicle, it is in my fishing tackle box along with at least one rod/reel combo and my state fishing license. Like California, we have municipal as well as state laws regulating knife carry.

 

[CountyRat]

One would be well advised to talk with a lawyer, rather than trying to anticipate how a police officer or judge might interpret it. For example, the Illinois statute states, in relevant part, "(2) Carries or possesses with intent to use the same unlawfully against another, a dagger, dirk, billy, dangerous knife, razor, stiletto, broken bottle or other piece of glass... or any other dangerous or deadly weapon of like character." (Emphasis added)

This may be in the law to give police officers and judges room for judgement, and may be relevant to what one may carry legally in Illinois (except for were local ordinances are more restrictive, as in Chicago). Otherwise, every woman with a makeup kit in her purse or car that included a glass mirror would be a criminal; obviously not the intent of the law.