What is 0170-6C steel?

S

storyville

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Aug 11, 1999
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I did a search here but didn't turn up anything. Any info online?

New steel, old steel? How/why did BK&T decide upon it for its soon-to-arrive line?

Thanks,
Glen
 
I had done some research on 0170-6 for the Steel FAQ, and found that it is the steel maker's name for 50100-B (AISI name). The B indicates that the 50100 has been modified with vanadium. Which is, I claim, what Cold Steel's Carbon V is, or at one time was, made from. And since Camillus at one time (and perhaps still does) manufactured some of Cold Steel's Carbon V knives, it sounds remotely plausible.

I wonder if 0170-6C is 0170-6 modified with ... well, whatever "C" designates in AISI.
Anyone know what that stands for, offhand?

Joe
 
Thanks Cliff and Joe for the info.

(Hmm... Will, it will remain a "mystery steel" till we know what it is!
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)

Trailing the spinner but not YET biting (!) --

Glen
 
Joe,
Good research! 0170-6 was a 'trade-name' for that alloy. Since it was no longer made, and we have it made for us, we tweaked the recipe slightly and gave it the 'C' designation for CAMILLUS. We aren't trying to make any big deal about this, but it is a very good carbon cutlery steel. We have ALOT experience with it. We like it enough to have it made for us.

It is proprietory and I will not devulge the make-up, but believe me, there is no kryptonite or unobtanium involved
biggrin.gif
Try it, I think you'll like it.

------------------
Stay Sharp!
Will Fennell
Camillus Cutlery


 
Always great when baseless speculation pans out!
wink.gif


Will, I actually never understood this strategy of keeping the steel make-up secret. When I see a steel that the maker isn't willing to discuss, I think, "ah, another maker using 1095 and afraid to admit it." Now that I know it's essentially souped-up 0170-6, I actually feel great about the steel! If I know *how* it was souped-up, I bet I'd feel better still
smile.gif


Anyway, thanks for the confirmation, Will!

Joe
 
When I recall it right, the old Becker ads stated that the (old) MACHAX was made of spring steel, virtually indestructible, and therefore, with a lifelong warranty. Does the 0170-6C steel have similar properties, or can it break at some point?

------------------
Andy Bockelmann, Switzerland
 
Welcome aboard Andy! Lots of knives are made out of spring steel; many fewer have lifelong warranties. There's nothing in particular about spring steel that makes it special, it's simply a very tough steel. To answer your question, every steel will break at some point. I'm just guessing, but 0170-6C is probably comparable to the spring steel of which the Machaxes were made. I believe Camillus is extending the same warranty to the current BK&T line.
 
To quote Ethan Becker from a recent knife mag (sorry, I forget which one) the boys at Camillus know what they're doing when it comes to heat treating, and the steel (whatever it is) "cuts like a screaming witch."
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Joe Talmadge:
Will, I actually never understood this strategy of keeping the steel make-up secret. Now that I know it's essentially souped-up 0170-6, I actually feel great about the steel! If I know *how* it was souped-up, I bet I'd feel better still
smile.gif

Joe</font>
Click to expand...

There really are no secret steels, as many people, including me, have access to a PMI or Positive Material Identification analyzer at work. There are, however, different ways to purify and roll steel, and even more importantly, heat treating is lots of science combined with a bunch of trial & error...and it would appear that heat treat can yield significant performance gains compared to minor alloy composition tweaks.

Here is a link to the vendor's page and the machine we have:
http://www.tn-technologies.com/product_detail.asp?9288

These things use X-ray fluorescence (molecular excitation) as detected by mercuric iodide detectors to compute the percentage of each element in the alloy. They are non-destructive...leave no marks, are extremely quick (few seconds and you have the composition and the machines best guess as to alloy based on lookup table). Very slick piece of technology.

Carbon percentage, unfortunately, is not calculated by these, but you can get to carbon content with a spark tester (if I recall what our metallurgist told me). Problem is, you wouldn't want me to spark test your blade, as it leaves a sort of small "burn" mark.

One of these x-ray excitation boxes is how people figured out what the mystical "Carbon V" actually was... and at one time it was 0170-6 per Wayne Goddard's book. It probably still is, but could also have a minor tweak. Heat treat is still the key.

Same with Busse's INFI... the elemental composition was almost assuredly and almost completely "revealed" by someone with access to an XRF analyzer. Nitrogen is the very different component in Jerry's INFI that separates it from the other 8% chrome/ 1.5% moly steels (Vascowear and CPM3V come to mind). Nitrogen is apparently not revealed by XRF. In this case, the formerly secret Nitrogen combines with some of the other elements to improve both toughness and edge holding (a good trick, to affect both positively) according to Busse, and this does seem to be a truly new component to add to knife steel alloys anyway, best I can tell. Again though, heat treat is a big key.

Joe, if you just have to know what is different about 0170-6C versus the old 0170-6, send me your blade and pay for return shipping, and I'll test it out at work. The blade can not have any coating on it however... the black stuff would have to come off in at least a contact patch area. Contact me off-line if interested.

Same goes for anyone who must know what Katz "top secret" XT-70 and XT-80 alloys are (my guess is they are AUS-6 and AUS-8 respectively, but I don't know that).


[This message has been edited by rdangerer (edited 03-29-2001).]
 
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