What is a balance knife?

B

BubbaGump

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Oct 30, 2015
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I noticed in the descriptions for the villagers that show up on the sales posts that the villagers are often described as being a balance knife. Does this refer to some special feature of the blade?
 
The balance khukuri is blade with a neutral balance and weighted so that it will stand on it's own on it's edge at the balance point.
 
Karda is correct. They are a bit more difficult to make and get correct.
 
Bookie said:
Karda is correct. They are a bit more difficult to make and get correct.
Click to expand...

A downright pain they must be to make.
Not only do you have to get the balance fore and aft perfectly balanced, but top to bottom also. Off just a smidge in any area and it won't balance. These things are a testament to just how finely and innately these kamis skills are tuned.
 
Kami Sherpa. Mrs. Martinos Dad Pala with a balanced Khukuri.
kamiSherpa.jpg


http://www.himalayan-imports.com/bio.html#pala
 
Thanks for the information. What advantage does the balance point offer the user? Does it make certain cuts easier?
 
Karda is correct in saying that a balance kukri makes a great fighter. I have a fairly heavy balance kukri that weighs 30oz. It feels more like 20oz in the hand due to the balance design. It changes direction extremely fast. It hits hard too!
Balance blades don't come up to often. I have been lucky to receive a couple that weren't even advertised as "balance" kukris, although they fit the definition perfectly.
 
Doesn't a balance knife prevent a large blade from being "nose heavy" ? I would think that the center balance point would mitigate over-swing in a fighting application.
 
Mc5aw, that's what I was thinking at first, til I saw the photo. If you look, the center of the knife is still quite a few inches forward of the grip, so it is still going to be nose heavy. The center balance will mainly make the blade more agile in hand, allowing for faster strikes, faster direction changes, and overall better control in a combat situation.
 
Some of the standard HI knives with well-recognized names, such as the Chitlangi, might also balance in the middle without being called a "balance knife" and might have two fullers without being called a "dui chirra knife."

My impression is that Yangdu uses "balance" and "dui chirra" for knives that have those features but do not quite match the design of the standardized models like Chitlangi, Sirupati, etc.

For example, the first knife pictured below was posted as a Balance Knife; the second knife was posted as a "Dui Chirra." The "Dui Chirra" could also be called a "Balance Knife" since the balance point is dead center between the tip and the butt. Both blades feel lighter in the hand than one might expect, because of the neutral balance.

I would classify both of these examples as choppers rather than fighters, because of their weight. Of course a strong person could wield them as fighters and no doubt cleave someone from stem to stern. It would be very messy and probably highly illegal, depending on circumstances.

17" 31 oz "Balance Knife" by Kumar:

View attachment 595603

18" 34 oz "Dui Chirra" by Purna:

View attachment 595604

These names, like all language, tend to be a work in progress, especially when kamis new to HI bring in their creative skills.
 
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Thinking of this just in terms of the Physics involved, control is going to be related to where the center of gravity is located in relation to the users hand and not just how far it extends out linearly from the handle. This will apply to any knife design. Draw a line that starts at the base of the handle through the end of the handle and extend this out linearly(Line A). Draw another line that starts at the base of the handle and intersects the center of gravity(Line B). How much torque is applied to your hand when attempting to start, stop, or redirect a swing is going to be dependent on only three factors: the mass of the blade, the length of line B and the angle formed between Line A and line B. The torque will be directly proportional to all three of these measurements. The greater the mass, angle, and length of the line, the more difficult it will be to control the blade when executing a swing because a greater amount of torque will be applied to your hand.

For a straight blade, the angle will be close enough to zero in most cases that this factor can be neglected. The major factors will be how far the COG extends from the handle and how heavy the blade is. For a blade design like a Kukri, the Angle formed is going to be quite large in most cases and have a major effect on controlablity. You will never be able to control such a design as well as a straight blade design just due to the Physics involved. The larger the blade drops from the vertical centerline the more unwieldy it will be in the hand. It will be harder to stop, start, and redirect, all other factors like blade mass being the same. If I was going to design a kukri that was optimal for fighting, it would have a relatively uniform blade in terms of width. This would push the COG back towards the hand compared to a blade with a huge belly positioned at the front. It would not have a lot of drop, which would reduce the angle between the axis lines. Keep just enough to create enough damage with the swing but not enough to make it too unwieldy. Looking at the photos of the Kobras and Suripatis, I think that's pretty much how they are designed. How much control vs desired vs how much damage is wanted on the receiving end is dictated by choice of length of the blade and the drop of the blade. I guess you would pick one that you feel offers the best tradeoff for your ability. With the blade-heavy designs with huge bellies, this is moot as these are going to be used as choppers. It will be harder to get moving and harder to stop and redirect, but who cares about that at this point. The material being chopped will stop the blade for you and all the energy will be imparted to the material, which is what you want. All of this is based solely on physics and not on experience using different kinds of kukris.
 
Gotta love physics:thumbup: I would tend to think some ergonomics comes into play as well. If you think of the knife as an extension of your arm and it is then you have a joint (the knife) formed by your grip that is 90 degrees to the rest of your arm. Having some drop to the handle and also the blade would tend to put the axis of the knife back into closer more natural alignment with the rest of the limbs that make up your arm. Chopping or fighting it seems it would be more ergonomic that a straight western style knife with no drop. Im just speculating and by all means no expert.
 
I think it all boils down to getting the right tool for the job you expect it to do. I know when I first heard this advice many years ago before I became enamored with the hobby, I thought it was just a cliche and ignored it. But it is very true. When deciding on a knife, you have to first ask yourself what you want it to do. The choice of design, grind, blade material then follows from this answer. I don't know a whole lot about kukris. I just wanted one to add to my collection. I always read that a kukri was a cross between a knife and a hatchet and blended the cutting and chopping properties of both. You can cut with a sharpened hatchet and chop with a knife. But that's not the optimal job of either, although it can be done. After playing around with the kukris I have purchased so far, I think this definition sums it up nicely, at least for me. The shape and positioning of the center of mass lets gravity do a lot of work when chopping in a conventional manner. I think its also a must to get comfortable and trained with using this style of blade if you were to wield it for self defense. Just picking one of these up for the first time and handling it, you can quickly see how you could mess yourself up pretty bad with a misplaced swing. Its definitely a lot different in handling than anything you probably have used before.

Being used to conventional blade designs, though, I don't know if I could get used to carrying a kukri as a stand-alone tool for all my tasks. I couldn't give up my straight blade designs. I think for me, it's the uniqueness and imposing design that impresses me the most. They just look and feel cool. An eventual must for a serious collector IMO.
 
This brings up another question ... what is the optimal length for relative balance with a large bellied blade?
 
mc5aw said:
This brings up another question ... what is the optimal length for relative balance with a large bellied blade?
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I would think that probably depends on what you will be using it for and/or how good your forearms strength is. The M14 is the model I have purchased so far that has the most unwieldy forward balance. The belly is quite large and extends pretty far out. I split some wood with it and it does a great job, a lot better than a hatchet. For this application, it is an awesome tool so far. But I wouldn't want to use it in a self-defense application unless I was pretty sure I could land a hit with the first swing. Because after that first swing is over, its going to take quite a bit of leverage and effort to get it back into position for another strike or a parry. By that time, whoever just dodged the attack is landing their own blow or just charged you and is knocking it out of your hand.
 
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