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- Aug 23, 1999
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Could anyone tell me what the definition of a Blackjack is as used in the California Penal Codes?
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What is a Blackjack?
- Thread starter The Oso Grande
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 7, 1999
- Messages
- 6,651
OSO...
A Black Jack basically is a powdered lead filled club that was carried by police and thugs from the 20's to the 70's. Also refered to as a Slapper,Sap or a Black Jack. Small pocket sized clubs.
Gloves had powdered lead sewn into the knuckles and were refered to as Sap Gloves
They were generaly used to whack people over the head with,, and could cause fairly serious damage.
Hope that helped..
ttyle Eric....
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Eric E. Noeldechen
On/Scene Tactical
http://www.mnsi.net/~nbtnoel
Custom made, High Quality
Concealex Sheaths and Tool Holsters
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[This message has been edited by Normark (edited 01-23-2000).]
A Black Jack basically is a powdered lead filled club that was carried by police and thugs from the 20's to the 70's. Also refered to as a Slapper,Sap or a Black Jack. Small pocket sized clubs.
Gloves had powdered lead sewn into the knuckles and were refered to as Sap Gloves
They were generaly used to whack people over the head with,, and could cause fairly serious damage.
Hope that helped..
ttyle Eric....
------------------
Eric E. Noeldechen
On/Scene Tactical
http://www.mnsi.net/~nbtnoel
Custom made, High Quality
Concealex Sheaths and Tool Holsters
Canada's Only Custom Concealex Shop!
[This message has been edited by Normark (edited 01-23-2000).]
- Joined
- Jun 10, 1999
- Messages
- 504
I'm not from CA., but when mentioned I know that Police officers at one time carried Blackjacks. These were of a couple different lengths and were probably 8" to 10" in length and 2" to 4" wide, I'm sure that there were other sizes but I'm not sure what they were. These were tear drop shaped and usually filled with lead at the bottom. They had no lead at the top or handle portion as this was the flexible half.
They were used to slap various parts of an offenders anatomy, similar to the way a baton is used, to stop an undesireable action or aggression. These were used as non-lethal intermediary self defense weapons. Parts of the body that these were used on were the legs and arms, non-vital organs.
As with many things they were easy to conceal and the general public were able to get hold of and abuse their use and this is one reason they were outlawed. I'm sure there are more and better reasons why but I only know a little about these items.
They were used to slap various parts of an offenders anatomy, similar to the way a baton is used, to stop an undesireable action or aggression. These were used as non-lethal intermediary self defense weapons. Parts of the body that these were used on were the legs and arms, non-vital organs.
As with many things they were easy to conceal and the general public were able to get hold of and abuse their use and this is one reason they were outlawed. I'm sure there are more and better reasons why but I only know a little about these items.
- Joined
- Oct 3, 1998
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The CA Penal Code Section 12020 doesn't define "blackjack," but assumes that the word has a commonly understood meaning in English, as in the two posts above. The same phrase in the code section also outlaws sale or possession of a "billy" (except by certain law enforcement and security types), and also does not define a "billy," leaving the courts to decide whether a hard blunt thing like a baseball bat can become a "billy" given the circumstances and the intentions of its owner. California law is generally unfriendly to purpose-built clobbering tools, and martial artists who teach and practice blunt instrument technique have to tread carefully here.
Note that neither a blackjack nor a billy holds a decent edge, and they're useless for opening a box. There is some overlap between sharp object issues and blunt object issues in non-firearm weapons law, but if we start getting a lot of questions and comments on blunt instruments, perhaps somewhere in the "tactical" section is a better place for them.
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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
Note that neither a blackjack nor a billy holds a decent edge, and they're useless for opening a box. There is some overlap between sharp object issues and blunt object issues in non-firearm weapons law, but if we start getting a lot of questions and comments on blunt instruments, perhaps somewhere in the "tactical" section is a better place for them.
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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
- Joined
- Apr 27, 1999
- Messages
- 6,117
Blackjacks are generally defined by having a weight attached to a springy handle. The oldest ones had a leather handle and something like birdshot in the weighted end. The weighted end was cylindrical and so was the handle. Later models used a coil spring covered by leather for the handle.
The general intent of blackjacks was to work the storybook magic of whacking someone on the head and rendering them unconcious or powerless without doing permanent brain damage. The end was heavy and somewhat soft so that you might give a sharp impulse to the skull without cracking it. Of course this is not a storybook world and brain damage still happened. Somewhere around the 1950's they developed a wider and flatter version to spread out the impact further. These had a thin leaf spring in the handle and a flatter lead filled head, all covered with leather. This was considered a police model.
Around WWII a more deadly military model was developed. This had two or 3 coil springs that could extend like a telescope tube and a small heavy ball end. This was intended to be deadly and concealable. I think this would more appropriately be considered a slung shot in the original California law. A slung shot is like a miniature chain mace of the Middle Ages--a heavy hard object on a cord or flexible handle. These have been used through the years for vicious muggings. In California these things have long been illegal.
Other old names for a blackjack are "cosh" or "sap".
[This message has been edited by Jeff Clark (edited 01-23-2000).]
The general intent of blackjacks was to work the storybook magic of whacking someone on the head and rendering them unconcious or powerless without doing permanent brain damage. The end was heavy and somewhat soft so that you might give a sharp impulse to the skull without cracking it. Of course this is not a storybook world and brain damage still happened. Somewhere around the 1950's they developed a wider and flatter version to spread out the impact further. These had a thin leaf spring in the handle and a flatter lead filled head, all covered with leather. This was considered a police model.
Around WWII a more deadly military model was developed. This had two or 3 coil springs that could extend like a telescope tube and a small heavy ball end. This was intended to be deadly and concealable. I think this would more appropriately be considered a slung shot in the original California law. A slung shot is like a miniature chain mace of the Middle Ages--a heavy hard object on a cord or flexible handle. These have been used through the years for vicious muggings. In California these things have long been illegal.
Other old names for a blackjack are "cosh" or "sap".
[This message has been edited by Jeff Clark (edited 01-23-2000).]
- Joined
- Nov 17, 1998
- Messages
- 3,301
3 coil springs that extend? Sounds like it falls into the baton (expanding)category and "Kubotan" (retracted) category. I didn' t know they were available since the war but in the 70' s we called them "Cobras".
L8r,
Nakano
[This message has been edited by Nakano 2 (edited 01-24-2000).]
L8r,
Nakano
[This message has been edited by Nakano 2 (edited 01-24-2000).]