What IS a custom knife?

[Charlie Mike]

I see a lot of "customs" out there. When does a knife become a custom? Strider customs are hand ground by Berger or Dwyer right? What about the rest? A custom Microtech has been ground by Tony M. What about the handles and the internals? If things are CNC ground/machined, is it not a custom?

 

[tsiloics]

Same as anything else - when it's uniquely designed for a specific set of circumstances. Of course there is some latitude in terms of 'how unique is unique'.

For whatever reason, there's a lot of confusion in the knife community with respect to *design* methods and *production* methods. Custom-ness is an element of design, not of production.

 

[SPXTrader]

tsiloics, I'll respectfully disagree with your statement that a custom is only an element of design and not of production.

Interesting questions, CM. Along the same lines, where would a company that sends their blades out to Bos for HT fit in to the equation? Or someone that buys pre-cut blanks?

To me, a true "custom" has no parts that are mass produced. Each part is created by hand by the maker, and is fitted together, one part at a time. This said, I wouldn't expect a custom maker to produce his own G10 or Micarta as an example.

This thread by Josh Smith, and his process, is what I consider a true custom. Alsdorf, Coats, Davison, Voorhies, Clark and others are what I consider true custom makers. Strider and Sebenza aren't what I consider a true custom knife. Very nice, and on the high end of quality, but not a custom when compared to the others I mentioned.

 

[Charlie Mike]

Cool. I have a DDR HD Maxx coming tonight. He has told me he sends out for his blades (pre ground blanks). Kinda made me double take though I still have much respect for the guy. I thought custom meant... hand ground blade, handles done with a milling machine... no CNC. Everything hand fit and adjusted/assembled by the guy who ground the blade.

 

[Ankerson]

tsiloics, I'll respectfully disagree with your statement that a custom is only an element of design and not of production.

Interesting questions, CM. Along the same lines, where would a company that sends their blades out to Bos for HT fit in to the equation? Or someone that buys pre-cut blanks?

To me, a true "custom" has no parts that are mass produced. Each part is created by hand by the maker, and is fitted together, one part at a time. This said, I wouldn't expect a custom maker to produce his own G10 or Micarta as an example.

This thread by Josh Smith, and his process, is what I consider a true custom. Alsdorf, Coats, Davison, Voorhies, Clark and others are what I consider true custom makers. Strider and Sebenza aren't what I consider a true custom knife. Very nice, and on the high end of quality, but not a custom when compared to the others I mentioned.

Kinda splitting hairs a little are we?

I do agree there are different levels of customs though, IMO Striders are customs because they are all hand fitted, milled and the blades are ground by a real person etc. No 2 are exactly a like for that reason.

Then there are the one at a time unique knives that you are talking about.

 

[RxEnergy]

Is this conversation about custom or handmade knives? 100% handmade would, in my opinion, incline everything mentioned above (no CNC, hand fitted, etc). Custom knife is just that - a custom. Made to order, according to customer's preference in materials and design specifics, as long as customer is aware of the production process and agrees to it the rest shouldn't matter. Then there are knives made by custom makers. And those come in all sorts and shapes

 

[tltt]

Here's mine-

Custom Knife- Knife made by one person or small shop to the design of a client.

Handmade- A knife were the majority of the knife is made by one person.

Benchmade/Small Shop- Knife where the knife is handmade by a small team of artists(under 25).

Sole Authorship- Knife where everything is made by one maker.

 

[Mike Carter Custom Knives]

There's always differing opinions of what a custom knife is. I think there is also a distinction between custom and handmade custom.

Companies like Buck and Busse take standard models, put a different handles on them or maybe do some filework and they are "custom". Yes, they are customized from the standard model, maybe even to the specifications of the customer, but there are likely hundreds others produced exactly like it. Well, not EXACTLY as natural handle materials will always differ in patterns.

Even with my handmade knives there can be debate. When I make a custom knife made to order for a customer it is definitely custom according to the customers wishes and no two knives I make are ever exactly alike.

But what about if I just make a knife that I like for sale on my website or at a show? It's still custom according to what I wanted at the time and it is unique from any other knife I made but it was not custom made for a paricular customer.

To me, CNC or pre-cut blanks has no bearing on "custom", only on "handmade.

 

[Ankerson]

There's always differing opinions of what a custom knife is. I think there is also a distinction between custom and handmade custom.

Companies like Buck and Busse take standard models, put a different handles on them or maybe do some filework and they are "custom". Yes, they are customized from the standard model, maybe even to the specifications of the customer, but there are likely hundreds others produced exactly like it. Well, not EXACTLY as natural handle materials will always differ in patterns.

Even with my handmade knives there can be debate. When I make a custom knife made to order for a customer it is definitely custom according to the customers wishes and no two knives I make are ever exactly alike.

But what about if I just make a knife that I like for sale on my website or at a show? It's still custom according to what I wanted at the time and it is unique from any other knife I made but it was not custom made for a paricular customer.

To me, CNC or pre-cut blanks has no bearing on "custom", only on "handmade.

I agree. :thumbup:

 

[J_Curd]

I personally think handmade or unique design qualifies.

Machine made parts, assembled by "insert popular maker here" aren't custom knives imho. They are simply top end production pieces.

 

[Kaizen1]

I don't see custom as a light switch type of situation. I see more like it being on a spectrum from production to mid-tech to 100% custom. There are some gray areas in between each.

 

[thejamppa]

if its made by hand and not machinery its custom for me. If person takes commercial production knife and "pimps it up" by doing things, that would result a custom too. Custom is IMHO a knife that is made or has been altered heavily by a skilled crafts man, resulting an unique knife.

 

[Joshua J.]

I'll have to say that anything made to the customers specifications, from tip to butt, edge to spine, is a custom knife. Not that it can't be based on existing models, but the capability must be there.
For example, the Tank Buster from Busse. There were about a bazillion options to choose from when I ordered the knife, but they were pre-determined. It's a production knife.
However, Busse also does custom work. If I wanted to, I could phone up the shop and tell them to make just about anything I could imagine. That would be a custom knife, even though it's made by the same people in the same shop.

 

[Bastid]

Good age old question that creates, let's say, quite a bit of discussion to say the least. Just about everyone has a different take on the answer depending upon their perspective and experience. With modern technology the "definition" has changed somewhat over the years.

There are makers who fabricate everything that goes into their designs from raw materials. there are forgers who use techniques in obtaining their raw steel and iron and those who use stock to forge from and it then proceeds to those who remove steel from stock to make a knife and then to those who "farm" out some parts and finish them.

For me it all is about the design. Yup it is cool when a person does it all themselves, very cool, but to limit to sole workmanship is not something I am into.

 

[Clydetz]

My idea of a true 'Custom'...

These are all 'Customized'...

 

[mmarkh]

Handmade customs and customized models are different things to me also.Here is a B.Goode custom.Brian calls this model the Companion and makes them all by hand.When I ordered the knife we discussed handle material what type pins in the handle and blade finish.also whether I wanted a lanyard hole or not.That is one of the pleasures of buying a handmade custom.Interacting with the maker and knowing that knife is being made exactly like I wanted it.Brian also sent me pictures as my knife progressed which was very cool showing me the desert ironwood blocks that became my handle.It turned out awesome.

I also bought a custom slippie from Ken Erickson that he made based on a traditional slipjoint pattern.Handmade and terrific.

 

[JParanee]

there's always differing opinions of what a custom knife is. I think there is also a distinction between custom and handmade custom.

Companies like buck and busse take standard models, put a different handles on them or maybe do some filework and they are "custom". Yes, they are customized from the standard model, maybe even to the specifications of the customer, but there are likely hundreds others produced exactly like it. Well, not exactly as natural handle materials will always differ in patterns.

Even with my handmade knives there can be debate. When i make a custom knife made to order for a customer it is definitely custom according to the customers wishes and no two knives i make are ever exactly alike.

But what about if i just make a knife that i like for sale on my website or at a show? It's still custom according to what i wanted at the time and it is unique from any other knife i made but it was not custom made for a paricular customer.

To me, cnc or pre-cut blanks has no bearing on "custom", only on "handmade.

+1..........

 

[eisman]

Not machine made? And where do you draw that line? Using a lathe to thread or make your own screws, a mill to cut a plunge, a drill press, a grinder, a belt sander, a cordless drill? I know guys who use all of those, and more, and I consider their work custom. (And there's dam few who don't use any machines at all.) I know guys who use a CNC machine because it's easier to use than 7 or 8 (or a dozen) set ups on a regular lathe and mill. I've used EDM for removal because I had it and it worked.

To me custom is made to the customers spec. If you're the customer and you do one off it's custom.

You make more than one, it's production.

I don't get wrapped around the axle about the word production; a lot of cars used to be made by hand, one at a time, and you don't hear them running around talking about how they're all "custom".

I think changing the color of the scales and calling it custom, or limited edition, or anything else like that, is purely sales and moonshine. PT Barnum was right...

 

[Mike Carter Custom Knives]

Not machine made? And where do you draw that line? Using a lathe to thread or make your own screws, a mill to cut a plunge, a drill press, a grinder, a belt sander, a cordless drill? I know guys who use all of those, and more, and I consider their work custom. (And there's dam few who don't use any machines at all.) I know guys who use a CNC machine because it's easier to use than 7 or 8 (or a dozen) set ups on a regular lathe and mill. I've used EDM for removal because I had it and it worked.

To me custom is made to the customers spec. If you're the customer and you do one off it's custom.

You make more than one, it's production.

I don't get wrapped around the axle about the word production; a lot of cars used to be made by hand, one at a time, and you don't hear them running around talking about how they're all "custom".

I think changing the color of the scales and calling it custom, or limited edition, or anything else like that, is purely sales and moonshine. PT Barnum was right...

There is a lot of gray area with technology. I look at it this way. I use a milling machine but it is a manual milling machine. I guide it by hand and therefore my skill determines the outcome. Now if I hooked a computer up to it to control it, I would have to program it but the MACHINE will have made the part. That's my opinion anyway.

I don't agree that more than one is production. I only make a couple of regular "models". One is a little neck knife. I use a template for the basic size and shape but each one is cut, ground and assembled by hand using a variety of steels and handle materials. I still consider each one a handmade custom. If I ordered 2 dozen blanks to be laser cut and delivered to me but I still ground them and assembled them by hand would they be handmade? Would they be custom if I finished them to customer specs?

The knifemaker's Guild struggled with this issue a couple of years ago and there was a lot of debate and disagreement about it. In the end they defined "handmade" to be "at a minimum, it requires that a maker personally grind, forge, or knap the blade, and honestly disclose how each component is produced". That leaves a lot of room for machinery and still be considered "handmade" but it was the best we could come up with that most people agreed on.

I don't want to drift off topic but "handmade" and "custom" are often intertwined. I don't know if there will ever be universal agreement but I like hearing everyone's take on it.

 

[tsiloics]

tsiloics, I'll respectfully disagree with your statement that a custom is only an element of design and not of production.

And yet there is only one definition of the word 'custom' as an adjective. It means "made to order".

Find me a reference to any authoritative source that states differently. Find me a reference to any authoritative source that relates the word 'custom' to the extent to which something is made by hand.

I intend absolutely no disrespect to anyone in the discussion, but to contend that the manner in which something is assembled affects the extent to which it is a 'custom' object is just simply wrong. I don't care how many years you've been saying it, doing it... if you are God's gift to knife design and production... a 'custom' object is made to order.