what is a custom?

110 Dave

110 Dave

Joined
May 6, 2004
Messages
8,151
many times we use the term custom :)... what is a custom to you?
Rocinante said:
Whoa.......Comparing the mass produced semi-customs that Buck makes with actual customs is a totally invalid comparison.
Click to expand...
invalid comparison? :confused:
this is an engaging thought.. would you or others care to enlighten with your thoughts on the differences
what constituents a 'custom'
and what constituents mass produced
and why the two are or are not compatible?

found this on the web:

Main Entry:
1cus·tom Listen to the pronunciation of 1custom
Pronunciation:
\ˈkəs-təm\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English custume, from Anglo-French, from Latin consuetudin-, consuetudo, from consuescere to accustom, from com- + suescere -to accustom; akin to suus one's own —Old English & Old High German sīn his, Latin suus one's own,
Date:
13th century
looks like simply to "make ones own.."
 
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A knife that is entirely handmade is a "custom", meaning it is a true one of a kind, even if the maker makes several that are on a pattern, no two will be exactly alike.

Knives that are built on mass produced frames and parts like Custom Shop 110's are what I call "customized", since they involve more hand fitting and finishing work than a production knife.

A close play on words, but I think a fair one, and it is entirely OK to call them "customs".
 
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Custom - anything modified to personal taste. Runs of limited editions. Special orders.

Mass Produced - same product that is made to replenish store stock with minor or no changes.

Semi Custom - no such thing in my mind. It has either been modified from mass production or it hasn't.
 
I agree with Pack Rat, if it's been "modified", then it's been "customized", at least to some degree. But BCCL is also correct in that a de novo handmade knife is a "true" custom. As the Ex-Prez said, it depends upon what the meaning of "is" is.
 
A term I here some is "Mid-Tech", wonder if that could apply?

Or is that more of a "all parts are pre-made and only hand assembled" where as Buck CS 110's have hand fitted scales???
 
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I think a good way to think of this is in relation to a knife kit. I have gotten many kits that I have assembled and finished. If I were to sell one of those to someone (which I would probably not due simply due to the time it takes me to make them) can I call THAT a "custom" knife? I don't think so. It might be customized, but not custom. And that is with me completely doing all the scale work and pinning completely by hand.

The Buck Custom shop knives have all the same parts (although obviously in different grades and materials than the standard knives) as the production knives. I have no idea if a machine or a person does the handle shaping, finish work and fastening, but I would think that there is the same amount (or less) hand work done on these than a knife I buy as a kit. So I would call them "customized".

I don't think this has any effect on their value or usefulness, especially since I don't think there is anyone here who thought the custom shop knives had hand ground blades or anything like that. I think all of us here know exactly what they are, and are impressed with them exactly because of that.
 
Fact:
many custom makers do not make their own blades
Fact:
many custom blade makers do not make a knife

so buck makes the blade and finishes it as a knife..
many knives buck sells are also called limited edition
and they are hand assembled and finished
some customs are also..
so can a limited edition be a custom ?
or is a custom also a limited edition ?
 
Bear Claw Chris Lappe said:
A knife that is entirely handmade is a "custom", meaning it is a true one of a kind, even if the maker makes several that are on a pattern, no two will be exactly alike.

Knives that are built on mass produced frames and parts like Custom Shop 110's are what I call "customized", since they involve more hand fitting and finishing work than a production knife.

A close play on words, but I think a fair one, and it is entirely OK to call them "customs".
Click to expand...

+1:thumbup:couldn't have said it better
 
Normally, besides the individualism implied, I think 'custom' connotes a finer choice of materials, fit, and finish. In that regard, a 'Custom Shop 110' is aptly named. Of course, with 'normal/everyday' materials, a production 110 nearly qualifies. Not slamming Bear MGC, a good old Alabama company, but my best 297 will never be mistaken for my worst 110!

I have talked to John Greco for hours - then bought the knife I like from his table's selection at a show. He still considers them 'customs'. Same with Fred Vollmer, when I bought one of his from him at a store where he works in Foley, AL. Mike Stewart can deny ad nauseum, but I still think of his Bark River knives as the best buy in a custom made fixed blade knife around. He has the bushcraft field covered - for a lot less than some much-heralded/bally-hooed so-called custom makers. I know, this is "Buckdom', but Barkies really are nice... and totally different from Buck offerings. So many similar offerings - such minor changes - then, there are the handle and rivet choices. Even cheapskates - like me - can find affordable variants - built to the same standards - 'tailored'.

Okay, so the dichotomy I see - the individual requirements not being met during construction - makes such knives built on 'speculation' - yet some insist they are custom. I 'picked' the one with the 'individual' characteristics I liked, for example. No matter, that criteria is met with the CS 110s. I think they are true custom knives... but what do I know...

Stainz

"Words... just words..."
 
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334dave said:
so can a limited edition be a custom ?
or is a custom also a limited edition ?
Click to expand...

Good point, for thats where it can get complicated.

For me I tend to look at them as:

Limited Editions that were made for whoever may buy them, no matter how large or small the number are not "customs". This would include, for me, "special" runs for Bass Pro, Cabelas and other retailers.

This 2004 Cherrywood and Nickel Silver 110 is a good example, it was a Special Projects for Heritage Housewares, a VERY limited run of only 24. It does not have a Custom Shop blade stamp and should not to me.

Cherrywood.jpg


It was made for retail sale to whoever bought it.

A Cabelas Alaskan Guide would fall under the same category to me.

But this Sambar Stag 110, that was chosen, ordered and made just for me, is to me, a "custom" 110.

SambarStag-2.jpg


Even though it might have some parts that are mass produced before hand, it's final assembly and special handle materials make it a "custom/customized" knife.

Maybe "semi-custom" would be technically more accurate, but that might be over thinking it???

I'm gonna like'm either way!!!!!!!! :D:D:D:D:D
 
To me what "custom" ought to mean is that the specific knife was made for a specific customer how that customer wanted it.

So for me Buck 110 Custom = actually a custom. On the other hand when someone makes a knife by hand that nobody asked for I don't consider it a custom no matter how unique or high quality it is.

I don't think that production methods or the number of similar knives made are relevant to whether a knife should be called a custom or not.
 
People, I haven't got a leg to stand on here, due to the nature of my 'affliction".
My only comment:

BUCK Customizing Shop
BUCK Custom Shop

One sounds like a HotRod establishment, one don't.......300Bucks
 
One can CALL them anything one wishes, but comparing them (as was done on the thread in question) to customs in terms of production time is, as I stated, a totally invalid comparison.

Is CALLING it a "custom" valid?

I think my last one was done in less than a week.

And well done, too......one of many like it that are mostly mass-produced in a factory and are quite different from the common herd of Wal-Mart 110s.

I see it as somewhere in between those Wal-Mart masses and a real custom knife.

In reality, it was made for me or whatever other knife-lover happened to order that particular combination of features.......could have been me, could have been somebody else.......result was the same.

That's pushing the definition of custom to the breaking point.

Maybe if the Buck Custom Shoppe had a WHOLE BUNCH more options and more extensive variations one could order I'd see it differently, because they might actually make a knife that was just for me.......not a knife that dozens of other guys had ordered.

Right now I see it as the poor man's way of claiming to have a custom knife.

Damn fine knife no matter what the owner decides to call it.
 
Customization is anything made or modified to personal taste. (Wiki)

Once completed, the item has been 'customized' and hense becomes a 'custom' article.
 
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