What is a "Schrade Knife" ??

delander

delander

Joined
Dec 20, 2004
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What is a "Schrade Knife" for the purposes of this forum?

Is it a knife produced in the Schrade factory before the abrupt closure last July?

Is it a knife with a "Last Production Run Certificate'? (As if those who were told that the plant had closed and they no longer had jobs when they showed up for work, would or could attest to the fact!)

Is it a knife that has a Schrade blade or other component(s) that was assebled post July 2004, somewhere other than in the Schrade plant?

Is it a knife that has some vestige of the Schrade name on it, somewhere, regardless of it's actual origin?

Or, is it a knife that is called a "Schrade" by whomsoever?
 
Ha...! A question that calls for some real thinking. A good one, Del and if everyone gives thier honest answer, we'll see some great defintions. I made a recent post in BRL's forum that kinda touched on this.

A Schrade to me is... Schrade Cut, Schrade Walden, IKCO, Imperial Schrade, from 1904 to 2004. And of course 'Geo. Schrades'. And if I include the IKCO period, then I must mean the three companies under that umbrella corporation: Schrade Walden, Imperial, and Ulster. My favorite using knives, the Imperial Frontiers (Powderhorns) made in the Camillus factory during the IKCO time, I also think of as 'Schrades', although this is probably not true for everyone. There can be a real stretch or two here... Like a Boker with Geo. Schrade blades (transition time knives, just after Boker bought Geo. Schrade.

Can I also include the new CSC knives? Well, I do. There is a direct ownership/management/employee/factory/city connection there.

A "Family Tree' of Schrades, as I have seen done for Case products would be interesting to see. I may work on one and ask for help on that.

Good, good question.

The Taylor-Schr***s , made in China? I dunna. I don't want to include them, but should I?

Phil
 
I would not include the Taylor models. If you include Taylor then you may as well include Rigid and any other look-alikes. As far as I'm concerned just because you use the name and patterns doesn't mean that they are Schrades. If you buy a Schwinn bicycle now it's no longer a "real" Schwinn.
 
Call me a purist if you will (but, no worse, OK?).
To me, a "Schrade" (for this forum at the very least!!) is a knife truly and actually manufactured by 'Schrade' or one of the associated/predessor companies.
'Conjecture', 'might have been', 'looks like', 'found on the floor', 'assembled from pieces', 'rescued', or any oth'er such labels/claims/hype do not a "SCHRADE" make.
Yes, it seems likely that many wonderful (and maybe weird, too) knives may have truly been produced as 'samples', 'one-off', 'trial', 'test run', 'possible', or any of numerous other 'labels', however, it is my belief that as a Schrade collector, only a knife actually produced and marketed by the Schrade company and/or associated/predecessor companies, is a true Schrade knife.
Your opinions will probably vary.
 
I think i'll have to agree with delander on this one. To me it's not a schrade knife unless schrade or schrade owned comapnies marketed them.
 
Personally, I think anything made before the close of the schrade plant, was a schrade (not including some of the ones they produced in china before clsoing). That's just my opinion.
 
I remember a thread quite a while back where we were trying to assign catagory labels to what we might find at this juncture and in the future. I cannot find it now, but I believe that most of the catagories are relevant to most Schrade collectors. Erzatz Schrades and "New Generation" Schrades would probably not be, though I do have a couple of U.S. made copies of Schrade patterns. I find them interesting as American companies shuffle and juggle to find their piece of the pie in the vacuume left by Schrade's demise. But I certainly would not call them Schrades.

I cannot see how one would go about proving the provenance of an individual knife... whether or not it actually made it's way through the manufacturer / distributor / dealer / retail purchaser foodchain, or was left in a storeroom after the fact. And I think we all know that Schrade manufactured and sold knives that were never in the catalogs and shortlines, much less in a dealer's display. And they made some custom knives on demand too. And all the private issues, so I cannot see how we could pronounce a knife not a Schrade because it did not appear in an official catalog.

The knives being sold by SMKW and their dealers must be Schrades. They were manufactured by Schrade in the Ellenville plant and sold by Schrade at the October '04 auction. They sold finished production pieces, semi-finished, rejects, preprototypes, prototypes, samples, everything that was not nailed down.

If we go by association, then do we include Camillus, Canal Street and Boker?
Then New York Knife Company, Ellenville Cooperative Knife Co., Walden Knife Company, Ulster Knife Company, Schrade Knife Company, Challenge Cutlery, Imperial Knife Company, Geo. Schrade Bridgeport, Imperial Knife Associated Companies, Schrade Walden Cutlery Corp, Imperial Knife Associated Companies Group, Imperial Schrade Corp,..... and we stop there? (I am sure I skipped a few)

I think it is a sticky wicket any way we try to define it except to set our own standards as collectors as to what we will collect or not. Muskratman's latest yellow filed knife is not a Schrade if we use the strict standards put forward.

Maybe I am a bit more liberal in my thinking of what constitutes a Schrade knife.

Codger
 
I'm new to this forum, but not new to buying knives. I don't call myself a collector because I don't focus on any particular area, I just accumulate what interests me, and that covers a lot of territory.

The marketplace will determine what a Schrade is, and I'll bet that it will encompass everything that has the name Schrade stamped on it, no matter how or under what circumstances it was made. There will be the regular production knives of course, but the "parts knives" or "end of days" knives will achieve special status among collectors due to the rarity of a given example.

The same is true of almost everything else that's collected. Look at double-struck coins or upside down stamps; those things are worth real money. The same will be true for uncatalogued Schrades. And that gentlemen, is where the forgeries will occur. They will be undetectable for that reason and worth doing.
 
Mike,
You and I differ on this point.
You said: "The knives being sold by SMKW and their dealers must be Schrades. They were manufactured by Schrade in the Ellenville plant and sold by Schrade at the October '04 auction. They sold finished production pieces, semi-finished, rejects, preprototypes, prototypes, samples, everything that was not nailed down."
I am under the understanding that the bulk of the 'finished knives' (the knife inventory!) were sold by the bank long before the October auction!
I'm not saying that components of, or parts of, the knives being sold as "Schrades" by SMKW (and others that they parcelled lots out to) have no "Schrade" content. What I am saying, is that to me, these are not truly "Schrades"!
My thoughts and feelings!
Del
 
Del, I have 3 or 4 Schrade marked IXL Wostenholms, are these not Schrades? I'm working on getting a Schrade 51OT with sambar stag handles that was made in the Custom Shop long before Schrade went belly-up. Is this not a Schrade? It won't come with the desired provenance and may lessen it's value as a result, but that doesn't detract from the beauty and uniqueness of the knife.
 
I have numerous Schrade IXL Wostenholm knives myself and yes, they are real "Schrades" to me - they were manufactured and marketed by Schrade prior to the closure. The same for the any knife made in the custom shop prior to closure.
 
About Taylor-Schr***s. I put them in the same catagory as the many knife brand names purchased (or however he got them) by Jim Parker. Mere imposters. Yeah, they have the name, but they don't have the parentage or linage.

Sorta like the 'Hammer' Brand purchased by Imperial so long ago. The knives that Imperial put out with the famous arm and hammer were many many steps down from the originals.

Marbles knives have the same problem. Here in Michigan, the old originals are still around, doing duty at deer camps or hanging on belts. Jim Parker owned that name for a while, until a court ordered him to return it. Since, they have appeared a few more times. I sure don't consider them Marbles, though.

Phil
 
What is a Schrade knife ? ( Done to the tune of MY WAY )


What is a Schrade what can it be?/ Is it the same for you as it is for me"/ American steak or chinese cheese/ made by those oppressed or those that are free/ I took the test we made them best but now the gooks say if its Schrade you want youll buy it MY WAY.


Sorry actually you all are making some excellent points and I am enjoying this thread I hope my song does not offend. I also wonder if Robert Goulet still sings or is alive this would be a perfect song for him.

My A hole opinion for whatever it is worth, is that any knife should be judged by what it is and what a person wants, a tang marking is part of that, but if the buyer is not smart enough to know if what they are getting is something which is not original and if they are happy with what they get, then who is to say, that they are wrong in calling it whatever they want. A lot of times I have people ask me if a knife comes with a box and papers. There reason is that they want to makes sure the item is real. I usually tell them that since I have boxes of boxes if they would like I can include several or if they wish I will sell them a box of just boxes and they can put all there knives into Schrade boxes ( any brand Case, Remington, rough rider) and turn them into Schrades since the box obviously is the key to the items validity.

Schrade is a trade name and Taylor owns it, the product he makes are Schrades. However what the item is does not transmute into the same item that was produced in the past. It simply carries the same name which was bought. Most people will not care which is why Mr Taylor sells a lot of knives. Those that do will continue to make the original product appreciate in value and will know the difference. I never cared much for pedigrees or distinction by decree written or ordered. I believe in judging on an individual basis in people or material things. That being said I do not feel any knowledgable person should have any problem discerning what a real Schrade is. LT
 
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