What is a "Snap Blade Knife" ?

[Spey]

Anyone have experience with "Snap Blade Knife" terminology?

Specific regional reference that I am attempting to interpret as follows:

6-22-1 SNAP BLADE KNIVES PROHIBITED:

It shall be unlawful to display, sell, give away, purchase, or possess any knife having a blade which is or can be concealed in its handle and ejected therefrom either manually or by mechanical or spring device and commonly known as a snap blade knife. This Chapter shall not apply to fixed blade knives having blades which pivot on or fold into their respective handles and can be opened only manually. (Ord. 1525, 9-6-55)


I can't find anything references to "commonly known as snap blade knife".

With regard to the term "ejected" from the handle, perhaps another way of saying OTF (Out The Front) ...

Our regional laws typically (as of about 2013) allow "assisted" openers, provided the assist means user hand, thumb, etc. is initiating the assist through contact with the blade (thumb-stud, hole, disk, etc). Reference below - "physical exertion applied to the blade by hand ... is not a spring blade knife". There are other references related to gravity and inertial opening, but spring assist operated via contact with the blade by hand not specifically illegal. So, no button assists, etc. as these would be classified as automatics or switchblades.

9.41.250

Dangerous weapons – Penalty.

(2) "Spring blade knife" means any knife, including a prototype, model, or other sample, with a blade that is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device, or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement. A knife that contains a spring, detent, or other mechanism designed to create a bias toward closure of the blade and that requires physical exertion applied to the blade by hand, wrist, or arm to overcome the bias toward closure to assist in opening the knife is not a spring blade knife.


From the general terminology, I am assuming they are not talking about those cheap utility razor knives with the snap-off (break apart) blades that retract/extend from a plastic handle ... I am guessing the issue is not with sticking someone with one of those and breaking off the blade :-0

I have already been through a few folks at regional city codes office and their police dept without an answer. Hoping to hear back from a commander on his understanding/explanation.

So, what does the term "Snap Blade Knife" mean ... anyone?

 

[mykel m]

It sounds like a balisong or butterfly knife to me.

 

[SW-EDC]

So, what does the term "Snap Blade Knife" mean ... anyone?

Lawmakers do this all the time to throw in confusion about what they mean.
It's intentional..believe me.
They want to paint a broad stroke of confusion.

 

[tom19176]

I read it to mean either switchblades or folding knives that can be flicked open....Different wording but similar to many other state laws. Which state is this from? There most likely is some case law on the subject.

 

[zzyzzogeton]

There's also regional word usage to consider. From the OP's location data, I assume he is in Oregon or Washington.

Maybe "snap blade knife" was a commonly used term for switch blades in WA or OR back when the law was written, but here in central Texas, a snap blade knife has always been one of those utility knives that has scored blade segments that you break off to give you a new sharp end, used mainly by folks who either can't sharpen a knife properly, or those who don't want waste time re-sharpening blades all the time when scoring sheetrock.

 

[Spey]

I have still not heard back from my messages to the city in question. Specifically nothing back from city police commander (I suspect he has better things to do than answer silly questions from a tax payer, I do hope to be proven wrong on this!). Hopefully, answers will surface in the near future.

I appreciate the comments from those who have replied. Will try to reciprocate with responses back a I can.

It sounds like a balisong or butterfly knife to me.

In general, our state does a pretty good job of delineating balisong/butterfly knives. Especially, with consideration that there is historic nomenclature available per the Federal Switchblade Knife Act of 1958 for jurisdictions to simple copy/paste into their codes respectively or simply defer to state or federal codes (somewhat typical they just include a line item statement of deferment in the writing of whole codes sections).

Additionally, even considering how liberal our state is we in general do a fairly good job delineating knife laws regionally. Most likely because we have a lot of knife manufactures regionally paying lots of taxes.

It is my guess the focus of this term is different (not meaning balisong or butterfly), hopefully not an attempt to be broadly "inclusive" of knives that make a sound "snap" or utilize some type of aggressive action to open that could be "interpreted" by others as offensive or threatening (somewhat as SoCalEDC commented to).

Lawmakers do this all the time to throw in confusion about what they mean.
It's intentional..believe me.
They want to paint a broad stroke of confusion.

This would not really be representative from other regional Knife/Weapons related codes I am aware. I will say however that there is one school district in our state that has taken an approach like you reference (comments about this in another thread I made related to knives on school grounds).

It is possible though that this particular city has elected new officials with "an agenda". Hmmm ..., interesting consideration that I can see possibly needs a little research (check into public official's office terms and transitions of new people into office). Attempt to find when code was adopted & when enacted.

I read it to mean either switchblades or folding knives that can be flicked open....Different wording but similar to many other state laws. Which state is this from? There most likely is some case law on the subject.

The text copy of this code reference is from Washington State, City of Renton. Additional info specific below.
Yes, review of case law a good option along with city council member appointments (referenced above). Hopefully, I will get reply to my messages into city staff for clarification on the term precluding this other homework. If anyone is up on case law review I would welcome any others research findings into this.

Specific Reference Info:
6-22-1: Snap Blade Knives Prohibited
Washington State
City of Renton
Municipal Code VI - Chapter 22 - 6-22-1 Snap Blade Knives

There's also regional word usage to consider. From the OP's location data, I assume he is in Oregon or Washington.

Maybe "snap blade knife" was a commonly used term for switch blades in WA or OR back when the law was written, but here in central Texas, a snap blade knife has always been one of those utility knives that has scored blade segments that you break off to give you a new sharp end, used mainly by folks who either can't sharpen a knife properly, or those who don't want waste time re-sharpening blades all the time when scoring sheetrock.

Yes, Washington.
Very true, generally ...
Yes again, "snap blade" has to me always meant those POS snap-off retractable razor knives (POS in my mind coming from a construction background where maintaining a tool historically meant pride in your profession - disposable tools ..., wtf). I mean seriously, a 100-pack of Stanley replacement blades (for their retractable & newer folding model knives) can be bought for less than $10 (considering they each have two blades that's $0.05/blade and available in multiple blade geometry profiles for various specific trade tasks). Sorry for that tangent ;-)

However considering our state (WA) that does not allow Bali & Auto's, boarders a state where both Bali & Auto's are legal (OR); and we have reciprocal trade agreements with companies that manufacture across boarder to take advantage of differing tax laws (higher property tax in one state with no sales tax vs. lower property tax and high sales tax in the other) typically definitions related to knifes are fairly easy to interpret (lot's of knife manufactures regionally, high tax revenue results somewhat higher attention to governing codes).

Historically, the hardest thing to determine was if spring assisted knives were or were not illegal. Even though they were available at major sporting stores for adult purchase it was pretty clear the definitions of the state, city & county laws made them illegal. A few years back the laws were re-written to make clear that so long as hand pressure required to be applied to the blade (thumb-stud, etc.) that spring assisted knives were legal for manufacture and sale. If for example they opened via push-button, bolster-slide, inertia, etc. (other than hand pressure to blade to initiate opening) they were illegal by definition of Bali/Butterfly of Automatic knife.

I have lived in Washington since '75-'76. While I can not say for certain that this law has not been on the books historically (and I simply have overlooked it for years ...), I will say that I do a pretty thorough job of awareness of local municipalities where I travel (and I travel through this city weekly). Additionally, I keep written copy of any/all laws related to knives, guns, weapons for the areas I travel and this appears to be a relatively new law.

 

[Spey]

UPDATE:
I turned up a bit more info. Appears this code has been on the books since at least 2014 according to a thread I found.
In the thread discussion however, it appears there was no answer to the question of what is a "Snap Blade Knife" as described by this code.

For thread click here
Scroll to post #14 for the reference to "Snap Blade Knives" Renton, WA

At this point, and considering the code is a bit buried in a location not typically searched related to weapons (guns, knives, etc.). typically weapons codes have a separate section and or are defined under Criminal Code, or the jurisdiction adpots a State, Fereral, or other MOdel Code like they specify in their Criminal Codes Section (link here)

I can see now, that because it was not under the Criminal Code (potentially defaulting to State Code, like most of our cities and municipalities) I over looked scrolling way down to Chapter 22.

The shear fact that this one code has it's own chapter in & of itself seems really strange to me ...

I am leaning further in the direction that this is an old misdirected code that seriously needs review and removal. Suppose, really depends however on the actual definition ... Back to square one :-(

 

[madcap_magician]

Sounds like a terribly written law aimed at switchblades, but the way I read it, it could be any knife with a blade that folds in to the handle ('is concealed') and can be opened by any means (mechanical or manual) as long as it's commonly known as a ''snap blade knife," which is to say, it could either be literally any folding knife, or literally no folding knife if "snap blade knife" is no longer a commonly used term.

Knives are actually worse than guns in that the maze of knife laws is usually vaguer than gun laws, just as restrictive, and often uses terms that are not statutorily defined.

 

[Spey]

Sounds like a terribly written law aimed at switchblades, but the way I read it, it could be any knife with a blade that folds in to the handle ('is concealed') and can be opened by any means (mechanical or manual) as long as it's commonly known as a ''snap blade knife," which is to say, it could either be literally any folding knife, or literally no folding knife if "snap blade knife" is no longer a commonly used term.

Knives are actually worse than guns in that the maze of knife laws is usually vaguer than gun laws, just as restrictive, and often uses terms that are not statutorily defined.

RE: "Sounds like a terribly written law"

I agree with you 100% (and in addition, knife laws can-be/are more restrictive than gun laws and punishable with greater terms :-? ).

It seemed to me to make sense to try and first figure out the term meaning, then possibly the issue concerning why the law was adopted & enacted, then possibly develop how to move to get it off the books.

At this point awareness has been checked, currently in research phase.