What is customary for rate and mark up?

Judcargile

Judcargile

Joined
Jul 3, 2022
Messages
145
I am very much still in tooling up, learning so much and probably going to add a fixed blade and folder project to the schedule, because if I dont get to make my own blade soon, ima die!!!
One thing that needs to get baked into my process is knowing what is on the table, money-wise. I want my friends and family to have my first knives; But, quality materials and time will eventually come at some cost.

So what is appropriate?

I see some work by appentices that appears to be where anyone would want it and only ask half compared to some others?

So, should I do jewelry repair too? LOL!!!!
 
You're not alowed to talk money but look at knife making as a hobby.
Hobbies cost money.
Only with this hobby, after a few years you may have a little money coming back but if you ad it all up don't expect to brake even soon.
Hobbies cost money
 
I don't think you should try to sell knives or even give them to friends too soon. People will form their impression while your work is below par. I made one of my first knives for a friend. I hadn't talked to him for quite a few years and I recently showed him some of my latest work. He was very surprised and blurted out "omg, you're actually good now". He clearly had me pegged as a hack.
 
Richard338 said:
I don't think you should try to sell knives or even give them to friends too soon. People will form their impression while your work is below par. I made one of my first knives for a friend. I hadn't talked to him for quite a few years and I recently showed him some of my latest work. He was very surprised and blurted out "omg, you're actually good now". He clearly had me pegged as a hack.
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You are making me think.....? Ha
I Hope everyone likes my knife.

Are we our biggest critics? Or do we have delusions of grandeur.....



Ultimately the market decides what Our knives are worth.
Do they sell, or do they linger at said prices?

I am sometimes surprised here what some people charge for their work.
Sometimes, not nearly enough.
I've heard, and have been thinking of selling it for enough to make 2 more of them. Might be a good place to start.
 
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I sell knives for time and materials so I keep good track of where I am sitting for hours.

What one expects for hourly wage is always up to question. When I started I was happy with 10 dollars per hour. Once clients and quality increased and my name spread I was happy with 20 dollars per hour. Now I keep my wage on par with what my wife makes which is still a lot less than what I could make as skilled labor on the local economy. I could raise prices more but I like to try and stay affordable, actually my prices are looking cheap compared to how much many makers have raised their prices lately.

For friends that I want to make knives for I will either gift the knife or charge only material costs.
 
Don't rush to sell your knives. I suggest folks make then for a year (at least 20 knives) before even considering selling them. Keep the first four or five and after a year compare them to what you are doing with more experience. You will be amazed at the improvement (hopefully).

.... selling it for enough to make 2 more of them. Might be a good place to start.
Excellent suggestion for when you start selling.
As your knives increase in quality and you gain more experience you will also learn what they should sell for.
 
Thank you all for the sound advice. I hope to work as an electrician for the next 15-20 years, still; But, the aches and pains and idiots do not inspire confidence. 😉

I must be careful and not allow my early work to be traceable. That is fascinating. That also makes perfect sense.
 
You will be hard pressed to make electrician wages selling knives. Best to look at it as a hobby that pays for itself.

Last year after taxes my wife told me for the amount of energy I put into knife shop and the tax bracket one falls into being self employed that I should just give knives away.
 
Start with a 200$ knife and calculate to earn 100$ after tax, no timeframe. Hourly rate is impossible to calculate and that's the reason to ban the idea for advice. 200$ is something that can be made with basic tools and there is a lot to see what's in that category. Did it take a day or 5 days it's up to you. Would you pay for it 200$ is one of the best question advices. Time is of no essence in the start, only quality matters. If it doesn't sell, quality or fit and finish are subpar. When it sells on several occasions, push for time to get it done with no more than 2h of labor. That will make you think of ways to cut time but keep the quality of work. It's a lot of practice. To get it full time, marketing is key. So less time working which means getting things done even faster so there is time for sales and marketing (min 2-3h daily). When you get to 14h a day working and selling, 6 day a week, it's time to get help. Until selling min 3 knives per day, there is no reason to get help. Higher pay requires higher quality and/or artistry. Keeping things as a hobby without thinking of spending a lot for tooling, which makes things longer, will allow you to easy build quality and make a decision easier for going in that direction or not. Planning too much in the start will make one unhappy.
Best advice one can give to someone starting is "keep your daily job".
 
JoeBusic said:
Start with a 200$ knife and calculate to earn 100$ after tax, no timeframe. Hourly rate is impossible to calculate and that's the reason to ban the idea for advice. 200$ is something that can be made with basic tools and there is a lot to see what's in that category. Did it take a day or 5 days it's up to you. Would you pay for it 200$ is one of the best question advices. Time is of no essence in the start, only quality matters. If it doesn't sell, quality or fit and finish are subpar. When it sells on several occasions, push for time to get it done with no more than 2h of labor. That will make you think of ways to cut time but keep the quality of work. It's a lot of practice. To get it full time, marketing is key. So less time working which means getting things done even faster so there is time for sales and marketing (min 2-3h daily). When you get to 14h a day working and selling, 6 day a week, it's time to get help. Until selling min 3 knives per day, there is no reason to get help. Higher pay requires higher quality and/or artistry. Keeping things as a hobby without thinking of spending a lot for tooling, which makes things longer, will allow you to easy build quality and make a decision easier for going in that direction or not. Planning too much in the start will make one unhappy.
Best advice one can give to someone starting is "keep your daily job".
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I agree with a bunch of what you are saying, but..... 2hours of labor???
I'm curious what the "average time" for a fixed blade, full tang knife with micarta, and kydex is? Nothing fancy. 4-6" blade.

I'm not fast, I probably stand around and Think too much, but I'm probably lucky if I can get it less than 10hours.
 
Crag the Brewer said:
I agree with a bunch of what you are saying, but..... 2hours of labor???
I'm curious what the "average time" for a fixed blade, full tang knife with micarta, and kydex is? Nothing fancy. 4-6" blade.

I'm not fast, I probably stand around and Think too much, but I'm probably lucky if I can get it less than 10hours.
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It is the way! If one want's to make a living there is no other way than to modify work for speed. Hobby can make 2-3 knives per week and help with finances. But, going full time requires sacrifice of emotion and general easiness. It's full concentration, limited errors and intent to work when sick. It's worse boss case scenario. Saying "DO IT" to your self is interesting and very hard. A lot of obligations. It's a life that makes boys die and men reign. :)
 
My best advice is basically dont think about it.

Its good to have a rough understanding how long/ how expensive different things are. You dont want to have an inaccurate view of your time, because then you will often find yourself offering options that are simply not worth it

Does an integral add 4 hours of work or just 1?

Does using a high alloy stainless run through 4 times as many belts or just 2?

But for actually calculating out a full price structure, it will really sap your will. If you want to make knives for fun, look at your knives, think about how long they took to make and how expensvie the components were and come up with a reasonable price. Is it a $300 dollar knife? a $500 dollar knife? a $150 knife?

Once it becomes a business and about making money a lot of the fun of mastering your craft start to slip away. It becomes work and the simple fact is work isn't fun. Its work.

Maybe im crotchety but I think a hobby that makes something of value is a much more pleasant addition to most peoples lives than a second job is.
 
JoeBusic said:
It is the way! If one want's to make a living there is no other way than to modify work for speed. Hobby can make 2-3 knives per week and help with finances. But, going full time requires sacrifice of emotion and general easiness. It's full concentration, limited errors and intent to work when sick. It's worse boss case scenario. Saying "DO IT" to your self is interesting and very hard. A lot of obligations. It's a life that makes boys die and men reign. :)
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I've never been to a Large knife show, like Blade.
Making So Many knives for one event sounds daunting, and terrifying to me.

Haha..... I'd be the idiot who showed up to "my booth" with 8-10 knives.
If I was lucky.



*To everyone's point about how Much work, and stress it really is.....

When I'm making a knife just because I want to, and it looks just how I want it to be... That feels Very different then when I'm making it, compared to making a knife exactly how someone else wants it to be...... It feels like work then.
 
Seedy Lot said:
How is hourly rate impossible to calculate. Pretty easy to keep track of time for each task.
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It can be calculated when one works full time and sells all. Labor is not the only part in the equation. That's the main logical error beginners take for granted. Economy is the driving force, not labor. Hour rate is one part of the expenses. It can be set in a business plan if the work is already set and there is no unknowns. In the beginning the work is not fixed and has a lot of unknowns. Only a well set manufacturing system can calculate the hourly rate of labor. Many surprises and usually doom awaits those who set their rate in the beginning. If one works 40h/week and sells one knife for 400$ his rate is less than 2$ (optimistically) no matter how much knives are made nor how many h/knife are spent. Those who work exclusively on the level of simple exchange will go bust very soon. With debt grinning.
 
Seedy Lot said:
How is hourly rate impossible to calculate. Pretty easy to keep track of time for each task.
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When stuff goes sideways you can spend hours correcting something. No one is going to pay you hourly to get you back to where it should be.

All knifemakers know that a problem can occur in the process up to the last second and sometimes it can take a significant amount of time to correct it, and that "hourly wage" can not be added to the price of the knife.
 
Adam said it right there. A given knife of a given quality is worth X dollars. Let's say $200. Whether you spent 5 hours or 25 hours is irrelevant to the value of that particular knife. The ONLY ways to earn yourself a higher wage is to vastly improve quality without sacrificing speed, vastly improve speed without sacrificing quality, or make incremental improvements in both.

If it takes knifemaker A 20 hours to make the $200 knife, he's worth $10/hr and has to buy all his supplies from the sale price. If knifemaker B can do the same job in 5 hours, he's worth $40/hr less supplies for that blade.
Buyingsteel, belts, sandpaper and other supplies in bulk saves some pennies. Making knives in sensible batches saves some pennies and some time. But getting twice as fast at a given operation, that's where the money is, if there is any in knifemaking.
 
But is it wrong to price knife on time and material? I often quote custom work on the fact I now how long it takes for each task.
 
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