What is "hard use"?

M

mikemck

Joined
Sep 22, 2000
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1,221
I see this term bandied about quite frequently, as in, such & such is a really tough knife, so don't be afraid to "use it hard".

What exactly would constitute hard use? Does it depend on the knife? Fixed or folder?

I'm just curious really what people consider hard use, or even abuse...
 
I say hard use is what solders/survivalists, ect. would do. Now Cliff Stamp--- I think even he would say, is beyond abuse. I've had calls before a customer would do something. To see if I would still replace it. So far I've told everyone to go ahead. Only one person has broken a piece off. I sent him something bigger, more of what he needed, free.
 
I’ve been using my knives lately to cut knots out of cedar sticks. I often just hold the knife parallel to the stick and chop directly at the knot sticking out. I’d say that chopping definitely constitutes “hard use” of a knife…… especially a folder.

Plastic blister packaging... enough said.

Carpet cutting... EVIL!!!!!!
 
I would call "hard use" that which brings the knife close to its durability limits or exceeds them very slightly (minor damage to the edge for example), without causing gross blade damage. Abuse would be when the blades durability limits are exceeded and thus results in functional damage. Both of these are low cycle definations.

-Cliff
 
I think of hard use as something potentially damaging to the knife. So, yeah, that's going to depend on the knife.
 
Hmmm... I guess hard use would be having to sharpen your knife and abuse would be hunting around for the screws which popped off.

Andrew Limsk
 
Working the knife as hard as you can and stopping just short of where Cliff would go. Send Cliff a 14" bowie and he will send it back in a 3" envelope. :D :eek: :rolleyes:

Generally, If I can do everything I want to do, without having to baby the knife, then it is hardworking enough for me.

n2s
 
Hard use for a working or tactical or combat or survival knife is anything beyond cutting carpet and cardboard, since even a "gentleman's" knife should be able to do that, up to just before breaking the knife on purpose.Breaking the knife on purpose is either abuse or is done for testing to see how much the blade can take in a semi-controlled atmosphere so you don't find out it is weak before you really need it 8 stories away from your gang box or out in the middle of nowhere,example;Cliff.
 
M nailed it.Hard use is the opposite of a "gents" knife.Cutting threads,opening letters,cutting an apple = light use.Cutting plasic,tar paper,carpet,wires,scrapeing,prying,pounding and hacking through things with your knife cause thats what you got,done by construction workers,farmers,military personal,cops and firemen = hard use.
 
None of you are explicitly factoring time into your definitions. A good quality factory "tactical" or any of our better known "user" customs can clean a good sized fish. Would that be hard use? Probably not for those knives... But what if you had to clean 100 such fish?

What happens above? You end up putting more stress on blade and edge fish by fish because you get tired as you work. You also get a sore hand, or not, depending on how comfortable the handle remains throughout all that work. A knife's qualification for "hard use" might depend more on the handle than the blade.

If someone says "hard use" and does not otherwise qualify it, you have to ask yourself what sort of limits they push when testing knives. Is it the "instantaneous threshold of abuse" they are looking for, or are they telling us that the knife remains both functional and comfortable when used to cut hour after hour.
 
matthew rapaport :

None of you are explicitly factoring time into your definitions.
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This is what I meant by "low cycle", ie. short term.

A knife's qualification for "hard use" might depend more on the handle than the blade.
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Well yes, it is an integral package.

In regards to length of use, yes that will make your handle requirements higher. Just about anything is comfortable enough to perform in the short term and/or when the cutting requires little force. Along the same lines, just about any grip is secure enough if your hand is not fatigued and the grip is clean, any blade will cut well if the material has a low rupture pressure and is loosely bound together.

In regards to the forces rising as you get tired, yes this will happen and the work gets much harder for a blade. The same thing can be seen if you compare users with different skill levels, the exact same work can be very different on a blade. Someone who seperates joints for example uses knives not nearly as "hard" as someone who just does a sloppy cut right through the bone, often twisting and rocking to make the cut.

The reasoning behind the defination I used is that it is general enough to handle all such situations, but specific enough as it quantifies the situation in terms of not the external use but rather in regards to forces/impacts on the blade generated by its use.

I think as well that you should differentiate between hard use for the blade and for the user. if I cut up clear pine 2x4's all day long with a good saw it will be very difficult for me because of the physical exertion, however the saw won't be effected at all.

However if I cut up plywood, the saw will be pressed very hard and will blunt rapidly. That is at the limit of most saws and is therefore hard use. Now there are saws that are designed for exactly that, they have impulse hardened teeth and can cut the dirty, glue impregnated wood for much longer. It is not hard use for them.

If someone says "hard use" and does not otherwise qualify it
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Then it like all relative terms is meaningless. The only way you can get any information from it is if you know enough about the person to infer what they mean.

-Cliff
 
I wouldn't dare disagree with you Cliff! I think you understand perfectly. But discussions like this should raise the bar on appropriate description or qualification of a question as you have raised it with regard to what constitutes "through testing"...

Thanks
 
I would have to say that hard use is using the knife day in-day out, from cutting fruit to opening packages to cutting rope, plastic ties, rubber hoses, wood, scraping paint, you name it... If the knife holds up without breaking or falling apart from daily use, it's a hard use knife.
 
matthew :

discussions like this should raise the bar on appropriate description or qualification of a question
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Yes, it would be nice if we had guidelines for blade classes as then you could rank blades rather objectively. However there is hardly universal agreement on this manner and thus I don't see this happening any time soon. Personally I just look towards the best blades in the class to set the standard for what is possible.

In regards to using the terms, it would be much more informative if actual descriptions of the use were given. Just list a few of the things that for you define "hard use" or "abuse" when you use the terms. This way people can understand what you mean. This is a general rule that can apply to the use of any relative term for knife performance.

-Cliff
 
I consider any use of a knife not followed up by proper knife maintenance to be considered hard use...Simply Prepping chum out on the ocean, then NOT cleaning the blade can result in BAD pitting. Constant use of a knife is most likely the BEST thing a knife can see, for moss RARELY grows on a rolling stone. My ultimate abused knife...my Cold Steel Bushman...sits in my trunk all year with just a thin coating of oil to keep it up. Thing rusts sometimes, but stay shave-sharp!

Steve in CT...formerly NYC

God Bless our service-men and women...
 
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