What is more important, intentions or result?

R

richardallen

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Oct 15, 2002
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I've been thinking about this for a while now - what is more important to you, the intentions for an action or the result?

If you do something with bad intentions, but in the end everyone's better off, is it still a bad thing to do?

On the other hand, if someone has good intentions but still the result of his/her actions is bad because something went wrong, would you still say "oh well, he/she had good intentions"?

Maybe a rather philosophical question, but I think it's something worth pondering about. Let's hear your opinions.

Keno :)
 
That's a tough one that's really very appropriate to the world situation. With torture scandals popping up left and right, one must wonder whether the outcome is worth the ideological cost of the process. Is it worth it to torture people to make the world safer? Does this really make the world a better place?

I cannot pretend to answer such ponderous questions, but we should all consider them. The answer is probably somewhere in that infamous gray area. And everybody will have a slightly different answer. Do I mind that other people have tortured other people to keep me safe? I don't know. Do I mind that other people have tortured other people to keep my loved ones safe? I'd probably be more inclined to say yes. Would any of us hurt another person who is evil in our eyes to keep our loved ones safe? Well, if you put it that way...

I can't exactly pinpoint my position on this one, but I'm glad that this got me thinking about it. I like to think that my principles are ironclad and that I would not compromise myself to fulfill whatever end. But who can say?

Chris
 
Uh sorry, for once I had nothing in my mind like torture. Can we keep that one out here? I realize it might be one of those conflicts I described, but I think this would get too political if we'd start discussing torture. Please, leave that one out. And dont try to think about it. :)

Keno
 
An ethics debate. My grandmother used to say, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." I think she was arguing against laziness. I don't think this applies to our torture policy. Would I kill an evil person trying to hurt my loved ones. Certainly. Would I be haunted by the images of his gurlging and writhing on my floor. Certainly. Would I be scared of the natural instinct that took over and how easy it was to revert to that state. Yes. Am I glad I have that animal instinct? Yes.

Good intentions are the ones we act upon that become good deeds. Lazy people have good intentions and allow them to remain good intentions. Bad deeds are bad deeds regardless. Bad results from a process started with good intentions are a learning experience.
 
I agree with Chris. This is a gray area question. It depends on the situation. I, for one, have a hard time figuring out just what a "good" intention is in a serious situation. In a casual situation, let's say a teenage girl decides to bake a cake for her parents' 20th wedding anniversery. In the process, something goes wrong and the oven catches fire ruining it. The intentions were good, everyone is safe, a 500 dollar oven can be replaced. In other words, her heart being in the right place is more important to me. I would think that a "bad" intention is doing an evil for evil's sake or direct personal gain. For example, a thug mugs and shoots a man dead to steal his wallet. The man shot happens to be an uncaught habitual child sex predator stalking his next target. Would this be a "bad" intention with a "good" outcome? I dunno.
Great topic:) i can't wait to read what the actually educated people have to say.

Jake
edit: To respect Keno's wishes to leave out the political stuff
 
I suppose if someone keeps a firm enough intention in their heart to do the right thing, that's most important.

Then, the question becomes, defining what that right thing is. Supposedly there are people blowing themselves up for a greater good...

J
 
I interpreted the original question not as "do the ends justify the means" but more as "do the ends justify the motivation, or vice versa."

I'd have to say, it depends. I generally dislike the "well, he meant well" excuse. There are exceptions, like a kid making you a mud pie or a cat bringing a dead mouse to you. But sometimes there's real harm done due to stupidity or irresponsibility. A friend once loaned his car to a friend of his. That friend ran out of gas, but noticed a jug of some kind of liquid in the trunk. Meaning well, he poured a gallon of water or antifreeze into the gas tank. How would you feel if a friend took your favorite khuk to a bench grinder to help you out and sharpen it? I think that usually, good intentions don't make up for bad results.

Now let's spin it around to good results with bad intentions. Suppose someone you've had a long-running disagreement with takes a shot at you with a Mauser. However, they miss and take out the zombie that was about to get you. Does this patch things up between you? I doubt it. You should probably worry about how quickly he can get off another shot.
 
Well defining good and bad is another thing, and mostly very individual. Should'nt matter though, since this is only a mental exercise.

I mean, you could have a hedonistic approach to what 'good' is, and you'd still have to ponder the issue, right?

As for myself, bad intentions + good result immidiately seem to be ok. But then I asked myself if good intentions + bad result would also be ok.

Can't be both right, or can it?

Keno

Edit: FallingKnife, thanks for putting in words what I could not. Do the ends justify the motivation and vice versa was more what I was trying to solve.
 
:confused: If you knock down a little old lady; that is usually a terrible thing to do. By knocking her down you save her from being run-over by a bus; then did you do good? Intentions are important only if the out come is hurtful. Al
 
Seems to me, that everyone...from a guy sticking up a Kentucky Fried Chicken store, to Mother Teresa...evaluates a situation based on his/her own perspective, needs, values, and view of options available...and THEN makes what he considers to be the best decision.

So, even if one does something with "bad intentions," the adjective is incorrect when applied to the motivation by THAT person. He or she may have intent to harm or destroy, but the action is done on the basis that it is the best option available, in accordance to the doer's world view.


Individual evaluation.
 
If there was a 10 year old boy standing in front of you at the intersection of a busy highway and you had absolute knowledge that he was going to grow up to be a man in charge of a country and that he was going to be 100 times worse than Hitler ever thought about being would you push him in front of an 18 wheeler doing 70 miles an hour?






What if he was your paper boy and the son of your very best friend?
Would you still push him, or not?
 
Yvsa said:
If there was a 10 year old boy standing in front of you at the intersection of a busy highway and you had absolute knowledge that he was going to grow up to be a man in charge of a country and that he was going to be 100 times worse than Hitler ever thought about being would you push him in front of an 18 wheeler doing 70 miles an hour?






What if he was your paper boy and the son of your very best friend?
Would you still push him, or not?
Click to expand...

If I was prescient I'd go to the powerball booth.
 
45-70 said:
If I was prescient I'd go to the powerball booth.
Click to expand...

Me too, but this is a single episode and the rest of your knowledge is as it has always been.
The only thing you know without doubt is the truth about this boy.
 
Yvsa said:
Me too, but this is a single episode and the rest of your knowledge is as it has always been.
The only thing you know without doubt is the truth about this boy.
Click to expand...

Yvsa,

if that were the case I'd go to a bar. It's the only thing that ever quiets the voices.

In my opinion this is one of those you can't answer with a yes or no. I'd walk away. Always a chance for the boy to change, we all make our own paths in life.
 
You can't see it all. The boy lives, millions die, and as a result, one thousand years later peace on earth. Now, should you have shot him?

We do what we must. We do what we can. We try.


munk
 
Maybe it's a difference in mindset but I see the question as a legitimate subject pertaining to the original question posted.
What is more important, intentions or result?

It seems that every time I ask this question everyone wants to change the rules.
The *fact* is that you *absolutely know* the outcome of the future if this boy should live.
There are no *voices*, it isn't a *figment* of your imagination. It is indeed *Indisputable Fact.*

If it's your intention to push the boy then your heart is in the right place and you potentially save millions of lives but if you back out at the last moment you have then condemned millions and the blame is all on you. Such is the way of intentions.

However if you do bring yourself to push the boy to his death then you have saved the millions and you will be remembered in history as the one person who helped to save humanity.
And such is the way of results.

At one time in my life when I was younger I would have with no hesitation pushed the boy.
These days I'm not so sure but I like to think that I still have the resolve to sacrifice one for the greater good of all.
It is indeed a difficult question.
 
Yvsa said:
Maybe it's a difference in mindset but I see the question as a legitimate subject pertaining to the original question posted.
What is more important, intentions or result?

It seems that every time I ask this question everyone wants to change the rules.
The *fact* is that you *absolutely know* the outcome of the future if this boy should live.
There are no *voices*, it isn't a *figment* of your imagination. It is indeed *Indisputable Fact.*

If it's your intention to push the boy then your heart is in the right place and you potentially save millions of lives but if you back out at the last moment you have then condemned millions and the blame is all on you. Such is the way of intentions.

However if you do bring yourself to push the boy to his death then you have saved the millions and you will be remembered in history as the one person who helped to save humanity.
And such is the way of results.

At one time in my life when I was younger I would have with no hesitation pushed the boy.
These days I'm not so sure but I like to think that I still have the resolve to sacrifice one for the greater good of all.
It is indeed a difficult question.
Click to expand...

I can't even be sure what I had for breakfast. If I pushed the boy, then through my actions I've become a murderer, even if not caught.


If I allow him to live and done no harm to him then its up to him to become or not become what he will. Madmen come and madmen go, we've seen a couple here too, what matters is what I can do, and what I can control.

That's the meat of the matter isn't it?
 
45-70 said:
If I allow him to live and done no harm to him then its up to him to become or not become what he will. Madmen come and madmen go, we've seen a couple here too, what matters is what I can do, and what I can control.

That's the meat of the matter isn't it?
Click to expand...

The meat of the matter is that it is an *Indisputable Fact* that he will become the head of a country and will be 100 times worse than Hitler. It is his fate and nothing anyone can do will change that except causing his death in one manner or another while he is young enough to not have any followers.
 
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