What is the accepted standard for complete restoration of vintage knives?

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Zombie411

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Aug 5, 2017
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I have just one simple question.

What is the accepted standard for complete restoration of these vintage knives?
I'm asking about beaters or basket cases... I'm not asking about "Like New/Never carried or sharpened".

Can they be buffed/polished? Taken down, cleaned, polished, re-pinned?
 
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@waynorth
supratentorial supratentorial
And others.

NOTE: I moved this from the Old Knives thread, because I think it deserves a thread of its own.

I don't collect old knives. From the threads that I have read, gentle cleaning and oiling is acceptable. Repinning, polishing, and buffing operations lessen the value of the knife.
 
...and if you do re-pin, buff, or polish, you should state so if you sell the knife.
 
Thank you for moving this to a more appropriate spot Knarfeng.

I took it as a given that if a knife is restored it has to be presented as such.

It's just that I know that left alone everything on the planet will eventually rot away.
I can see the point in patina on any number of objects but I don't like the look of pitting or decaying brass on a knife.
Not all knives mind you. Just the more common or available ones. I've recently purchased a few MINT knives from the 60's - 80's with boxes/paperwork, the whole 9 yards...

I've also seen the same knives in beat down condition but never sharpened. Those are the knives I am primarily asking about.

Tear it down, frame up restoration (bike guy), and a new lease on life for a tired old dog. For a sales display I think that could speak volumes.
Before, during, and after restoration, right next to a pristine example.

Bottom line... could a restored knife bring a better price than the original beater? (certain vintages/examples of course)
 
Before I respond to the question, I want to emphasize for others that you do nothing more than wipe the steel parts with a rag damp with mineral oil to PRESERVE an old knife. Keep wiping until the steel no longer discolors the rag. Then store well.

You ask a different question. To refinish (restore isn't really accurate), a professional uses the same tools as a knife manufacturer. You will be removing material, not restoring it. Watch the finishing steps in the GEC factory tour video on GEC's Youtube channel. There are three videos. The finishing steps will probably be in the third video.

Most folks don't have the same equipment as manufacturers. For that reason, buffing is by far the most common. It doesn't make it the best. In my opinion it's the worst.

The most common thing done by Ebay sellers is definitely buffing. If heavily buffed to remove metal past pitting, you may round the edges. You may also thin out the blades a lot. The blade should be cooled regularly or you might ruin the steel if it gets too hot. Also, applying to much pressure can loosen up the pins so be mindful.

There are lots of fluff and buffers on eBay who buy rusted old knives, buff them, and put them back on eBay.... sometimes describing them as unused or mint. An honest description would be that the knife was refinished by buffing. There are lots of folks who don't know what original finish looks like. I agree with knarfeng that honesty is important.

I don't refinish old knives but I study them. Someone who refinishes knives can you give tips. The only way to remove pits is to remove metal until you get past the pitting.

On modern knives, I will sometimes use a pencil to scrape off loose spots of rust. The lead will remove loose rust but it is softer than steel so it does not scratch the blade. Some folks will use 000 steel wool but that's more abrasive.

I recommend using the least abrasive method and removing as little material as possible. Some heavily buffed knives look like half melted ice cubes since so much material is lost.
 
@glennbad can give tips on taking knives apart. If you take a knife apart mark the liners to indicate that the knife has been worked on. A simple thing to do is to stamp the liners with your initials and the year.
 
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Zombie,

I think most serious long time vintage knife collectors would recommend the least intervention as possible. Steps taken to eliminate or stop rust or corrosion and non aggressive cleaning are okay. Then oil the joints. I use Renaissance Wax to protect blades, bolsters, springs and handles. Steps taken to buff or polish an antique or collectible knife in an effort to restore to a like new or better than found condition are highly frowned upon. This can have an adverse effect on an otherwise highly collectible vintage knife as is the case with most antiques. Polishing and buffing away the patina can kill the collectible value and status of an otherwise prized specimen. Less is more in most all cases! Good question.
 
Supratentorial, Thank you.
I understand every word of your post, and agree with your summations of each process you describe.
Most of what I do on a daily basis is deal with (in one form or another) making things as good as or better than new.
I can always spot a piece that has been "worked on". Be it a polished carburetor that looks like the ripples on a pond, or a line that should be straight yet I can see the deflection because I know HOW to look at it.

I have also spotted many of the FleaBay sellers you mention using the same skills I have been honing my entire life. Most of them are GLARING examples of poor judgment.

Thank you for the "GEC factory tour video"ention. I'll look it up


Mr. Luger,
You answered my question pretty directly.
You do state "Antique, and Collectible".
I think that category deserves protection, and may fall out side the category of the knives I am referring to.


I guess I should have been much more specific...
I own a beautiful Camillus Catfish Hunter presentation knife. I would never tamper with it
but there are dozens of these that are beat to death. What about re-finishing one of those beaters?
Or take a 1970 Buck 110. Any harm in "re-finishing" such an animal?
Maybe an old straight razor from the 50's - 60's that has a tarnished yet solid blade but broken scales?

Does that really destroy any potential future collectible value? Current value?
Take it as a given that these examples would be shown AS re-finished examples of what was once an era correct item.

I'm kind of trying to find my "niche" in this industry, and I don't want to commit any fouls (if it can be prevented).
 
Zombie411 said:
Supratentorial, Thank you.
I understand every word of your post, and agree with your summations of each process you describe.
Most of what I do on a daily basis is deal with (in one form or another) making things as good as or better than new.
I can always spot a piece that has been "worked on". Be it a polished carburetor that looks like the ripples on a pond, or a line that should be straight yet I can see the deflection because I know HOW to look at it.

I have also spotted many of the FleaBay sellers you mention using the same skills I have been honing my entire life. Most of them are GLARING examples of poor judgment.

Thank you for the "GEC factory tour video"ention. I'll look it up.


Mr. Luger,
You answered my question pretty directly.
You do state "Antique, and Collectible".
I think that category deserves protection, and may fall out side the category of the knives I am referring to.


I guess I should have been much more specific...
I own a beautiful Camillus Catfish Hunter presentation knife. I would never tamper with it
but there are dozens of these that are beat to death. What about re-finishing one of those beaters?
Or take a 1970 Buck 110. Any harm in "re-finishing" such an animal?
Maybe an old straight razor from the 50's - 60's that has a tarnished yet solid blade but broken scales?

Does that really destroy any potential future collectible value? Current value?
Take it as a given that these examples would be shown AS re-finished examples of what was once an era correct item.

I'm kind of trying to find my "niche" in this industry, and I don't want to commit any fouls (if it can be prevented).
Click to expand...

All of the examples that you gave, I don't personally have any real concern about. It's the 1960s and earlier (mostly pre 1940) that are of interest to me. In particular, original finish on antique knives is becoming a rare thing. The old crocus and glazed finishes are an important part of knife manufacturing history that should be preserved.

Although the later knives don't really concern me, I can make some general comments. Any knife that's been refinished is no longer original. So the historical value is GONE. All or most of the collector value should be gone as well. There will still be interest in the knife from some folks. Monetary value should be reduced (compared to mint) if described accurately. That's why there are a lot of forgetful folks on Ebay. But if you are starting with a rough knife with little value then anything is an improvement.
 
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I sold a near mint knife with a tipped blade for a little over $100. Just this evening, the buyer sold the knife on Ebay with the blade reshaped. In the description, he said that he's not sure if the blade was reground. :rolleyes: He got about $100 more than he paid for it. So there's about $100 difference between honesty and dishonesty. :thumbsdown:
 
In cases like that (blatant lie) I try to rely on Karma to handle things.
Although Karma is not always on my timetable

You know who did that, and that person (I assume) lost an Allie. Instant Karma!

I get your points above, and they make perfect sense. My interest in this is to see where the dividing line is.
To understand IF there is a need or want for someone to "re-finish" older EDC type knives.
Of course there are people that want that old folder brought back to life but I am understanding now that it's not really the norm to re-finish, and offer them for sale (as re-finished)

To compare to a vintage bike... The value is in what the collector wants. A rusted up POS in the original shipping crate may well be worth 100 times the daily driver of the same year.

Good points sir, and thank you for taking the time to help.
 
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