What is the attraction to nickel silver hardware?

[on_the_edge]

Or perhaps I should ask, is there an aversion to SS hardware on custom knives?

I hope this is an obviously ignorant question. I am trying to understand this, but don't feel as though I am making much headway. Nickel silver, as compared to SS, is much softer, shows rub marks and scratches more easily, and (if what I was told is correct) tarnishes over time whether you touch it or not. All in all, it seems like there are at least a few better choices, yet many customs use it. I wonder about the use of other materials as well, such as brass or copper.

If someone could please shed some light on this, I would greatly appreciate it. My searches here did not yield much info.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[Danbo]

It's better than Brass(which has no class). Nickel silver is easier to work and is easier to solder as well.

Personally, I like nickel silver. One must keep in mind it's limitations, though. Softness, being one of them. Discoloration and the need to occasionally polish is another.

 

[John R. Fraps]

Nickel Silver bolsters with nickel silver pins on slipjoints are easier to work and get the pins to "disappear" in the bolster when peened that stainless in stainless.....

Nickel is very traditional in slipies as well.....most Case and other "production" slipies will often have nickel silver pins and bolsters.....
Often nickel silver bolsters need to be pinned to what is often brass liners.

Stainless 410 to 410 or 410 and 416 bolsters and liners can be silver soldered together.
416 integral liners/bolsters machine well. (410 is less desireable to machine...gummier than 416) - 416 pins disappear peemed into 410 or 416 bolsters...same color and carefully finished do well (texture/ hardness is slightly different between 410 and 416).....

Brass and brass works fine for pins and bolsters but brass does tend toward a no longer shiney finish.

 

[Kevin Jones]

I prefer SS, however don't necessarily have a problem with nickle silver. It's by no means a deal breaker for me. NS can vary in quality.
I have and have had older knives with NS and have never had one tarnish, though have heard the horror stories. But then some will say "all ivory cracks, just a matter of when". I haven't experienced that either.
Perhaps I'm just lucky. Don't know......

 

[rackness]

I dislike nickle silver as I am not one who collects knives that sit unused. I find that nickle silver discolors very easily and even though it is not dififcult to restore it is a pain in the butt to do on a daily basis. I prefer bolsters pins etc of SS or other non easily tarnished material.

 

[Keith Montgomery]

I do not like the fact that nickel silver scratches and scuffs easily. I also don't like it when it has a slight yellow coloration. I prefer it to brass, because I hate the green oxidization, but overall I prefer stainless and bronze.

 

[jdm61]

Interesting......I have recently switched over to 300 and 400 series stainless and cold blued 1018 because I was told by a number of folks, including one dealer that NS was becoming almost as undesirable as brass on ABS style fixed blades. I have found that the 300 series stainless is no harder and possibly a bit easier to sand up nicely than NS.

 

[flava]

No NS attraction here for all the reasons mentioned above
I like many other materials (SS, damascus, copper, bronze, sterling silver) but not NS.

 

[Bruce Evans]

I am having trouble just finding the thicknesses of NS that I need so I have been trying some 410 stainless I got along time ago.I like my NS better as after polishing the stainless to a high shine I cant even touch it without little scratches showing up and then I have to sand and polish again unlike NS I can just buff and these disapier.Plus I am not sure about trying a double ball quillion guard with stainless,but I will be trying.Steel will rust if your not careful and then it is a "B" to clean up on the knife.I do like Bronze but it also oxidizes and doesnt stay shiny pretty quick.Copper for guards to me is just to soft but it looks good...I didnt like NS when I changed from Brass but now me and it get along so I guess It will be the same switching to stainless,But I think I will lean towards 416 instead of 410...
Just my thoughts,
Bruce

 

[Kohai999]

I am having trouble just finding the thicknesses of NS that I need so I have been trying some 410 stainless I got along time ago.I like my NS better as after polishing the stainless to a high shine I cant even touch it without little scratches showing up and then I have to sand and polish again unlike NS I can just buff and these disapier.Plus I am not sure about trying a double ball quillion guard with stainless,but I will be trying.Steel will rust if your not careful and then it is a "B" to clean up on the knife......Bruce

You can heat treat 416, and it increases the rust resistance....quite a bit, and well as making it harder to scratch....a scotchbrite pad(gray) leaves a wonderful hand rubbed satin finish.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[jdm61]

You can heat treat 416, and it increases the rust resistance....quite a bit, and well as making it harder to scratch....a scotchbrite pad(gray) leaves a wonderful hand rubbed satin finish.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

I have taken 300 stainless to 600 and even 1000 grit and it still has that "soft" look to it. I haven't gotten it to that "slightly hazy mirror" look that I get from W2 when I wet sand it at 1000 or finer. Very attractive looking, but I am not sure which stainless you would use if you wanted a bright mirror finish on your hardware. Is buffing a must?

 

[Bladeandbarrel]

I really like damascus for guards

 

[Kohai999]

I have taken 300 stainless to 600 and even 1000 grit and it still has that "soft" look to it. I haven't gotten it to that "slightly hazy mirror" look that I get from W2 when I wet sand it at 1000 or finer. Very attractive looking, but I am not sure which stainless you would use if you wanted a bright mirror finish on your hardware. Is buffing a must?

1. AFAIK, 300 will not harden....at all.

2. 416 stainless is the industry standard for the above reasons, but I'll recap, since you used to be a lawyer Heat treat it, and it won't rust, plus it gets hard, not as hard as heat treated blade steel, but harder than mild steel.

3. Yes, buffing is a must....specifically loosely sewn linen with green, or my favorite, pink compound. The pink is called no-scratch, btw. DO NOT cross contaminate your buffing wheels. You can sort of use the same ones for brass, aluminum, and NS, but stainless should only be used for stainless.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Bruce Bump]

Nothing looks more at home than NS on the old bowies IMHO. I do like to use 416 better though if Im not trying to make a replica. I dont worry too much about scratches and oxidation because there is a certain amount of care and maintainence on any knife with natural materials. If I use stainless on the blade its only right to use stainless on the guard but when you have a blade that will rust, and a handle that wont take moisture without checking why not have a guard that needs care too.

 

[Russ Andrews]

The 18% nickel silver is easy to drill and file, and fairly easy to solder. It will,
however have a slight yellow tint next to a really white metal. It scratches easily
and will turn green in spots if stored in contact with something that retains moisture.

Of the stainless steels, 416 is the best. It should be air hardened from 1850 f,
and tempered at 400 to 750f for Rc 38 to about Rc 25. use the higher tempering
temp if the piece will be engraved. Do not temper over 800f, or some corrosion
resistance will be lost. I prefer to tin 416 prior to soldering.
Even at the lower hardness, 416 dosen't scratch going in and out of a sheath, and
I've not seen it stain.

 

[brownshoe]

Nickel silver hardware gives a different balance point to a knife than stainless.

 

[RogerP]

I like both nickel silver and stainless. I'll generally leave it up to the maker if he has a preference. Sometimes the softer, warmer tone of the nickel silver can work better aesthetically with some handle materials - particularly if you want a visual "break" between the blade and the handle. I have seen light tarnishing on nickel silver, but never anything too heavy and certainly not anything that needed daily attention, as someone suggested. I don't find the extra care required for nickel silver over stainless on the guard to be any more than the extra care required for carbon or damascus over stainless in the blade.

I don't see that there's really any controversy - most makers will be happy to put either on your custom order.

Roger

 

[Bruce Evans]

I agree with Roger that nickel silver has a nicer "Warmer tone" on a knife..But if you want stainless that is what you want and I for one am willing to start using it.Anybody know where a guy can get 25 thousandth thick 416 stainless..
Bruce

 

[Lorien]

Stainless steel is a relatively new material for use in cutlery, that and 10 tonne epoxy.
Most stainless steel cannot be brazed, (or soldered if you prefer the term) so pinning and epoxying the bolsters on is the way to go.

Back in the olden days, before high strength epoxy and stainless steel, one would have to pin and braze the bolster to the tang in order for it to stay on, and 'bolster' the handle material.
Brass and nickel silver are very easy to braze to carbon steel. The only real difference between the two is that brass is worth less than nickel silver- not as high class nor will it take an etch as well for 'fancy' knives.

A carbon steel knife with nickel silver bolsters makes sense, stainless much less so.

 

[jdm61]

1. AFAIK, 300 will not harden....at all.

2. 416 stainless is the industry standard for the above reasons, but I'll recap, since you used to be a lawyer Heat treat it, and it won't rust, plus it gets hard, not as hard as heat treated blade steel, but harder than mild steel.

3. Yes, buffing is a must....specifically loosely sewn linen with green, or my favorite, pink compound. The pink is called no-scratch, btw. DO NOT cross contaminate your buffing wheels. You can sort of use the same ones for brass, aluminum, and NS, but stainless should only be used for stainless.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

I actually really like the look that I am getting from 300 series and it doesn't yellow. I just bought some 416 so I will have to try the hardening trick.