What is the best course in a survival situation?

psy-ops

psy-ops

Joined
Sep 27, 1999
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You are on a eco-tour gone bad with your wife and 3 year old child in a foriegn country. It is summertime but in the mountains of Peru, somewhere along the Incan trail. On the tour with you there are 5 Americans, 3 females and 2 males and a german couple with 2 children. One of the Americans is an ex-military guy around 40-ish, who has appointed himself leader and the others are falling inline.

Remember, you are in a foreign country and the tour company you chose was the cheapest deal you can find. A speedy rescue is not in the cards. No one was injured and the guides took off and you are off the trail. Also, in Peru there are rebel groups that hide in mountain areas.

You are prepared as any of us normally would be for circumstances such as these. You don't have GPS or a compass or even a map. You picked up a machete at a local market, you also have a knife and a pocket tool, a typical altoids kit, some nutritional bars, snacks, and 100' of paracord. Both you and your wife have a small backpack with warm clothes in it. The others have backpacks with typical eco-tour stuff but none have the survival gear you have nor are they aware of what you have or know.

The Self appointed leader, now known as SAL, has decided to go in a direction you are not comfortable with. Everyone else IS going with him. You tried to dissuade SAL from going in his chosen direction but he didn't even consider your idea. Talking further is futile. He has dogmatically decided he knows the best way.

What do you chose? Go with the pack or take your family and head in a different direction?
 
I've never been very good at playing "follow the leader".

If I thought he's about to lead the group to disaster I would first inform them that he is wrong, give them the option and opportunity to follow me instead, and then I would simply go, either with whoever wants to come or on my lonesome.
I have enough experience to be confident in my navigation and survival knowledge and the choices I would make that I don't necessarily need to follow someone even if I feel he's wrong.

One lesson I have learned is that many people who decide to be leaders of the pack are NOT nearly as intelligent and all-knowing as they portray themselves to be.

Stay sharp,
emanuel
 
[CODE said:
Emanuel;4645503]One lesson I have learned is that many people who decide to be leaders of the pack are NOT nearly as intelligent and all-knowing as they portray themselves to be[/CODE]
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I'll second this. Those who seek leadership usually do it for reasons other than the benefit of the group. His training, however, could be useful. I'de still head out on my own, though. Also, I wouldn't be caught outside my backyard without a compass.
 
Chris,

Don't want to be rude, but I don't see the emergency of this situation. I need more details.

How many days are you from your starting point (assuming there is a car with roadmaps cellphone etc)? Is it possible to trace your tracks back?

First thing: start looking for a place to take care of your little one. That's prio 1. At least find some safe water or food. Don't panic, you're in an area that should give you water/food. If this would happen in a desert 60miles from the nearest watersource you are having a serious problem.
Second. Make your own plan and make sure the wife agrees with you. It's important to have the same thoughts in this situation. You have to rely on each other for real now.

Any more details available?

CZ
 
Why move in the first place. Find an open place and start a fire "just for fun", it makes the kids happy and the grown ups can calm down and discuss in a civil manner. If the fire makes smoke someone will probably find you and if you are in the area it must be reasonably safe in the first place so those who sees the smoke will most likely be friendly anyway. When the guide discovers that you are lost he might see the smoke from far away and alert someone. Start doing things to make people occupied, build a shelter and such.

If the locals show up and they somewhat hostile, send the german tourists to try to explain the situation and make sure that everyone shuts up, especially that military guy. Why? Because it is easy, US has been poking around in every south american nations interests for fifty years. The germans have not, and there might even be some remnants of the nazis escaping so instead of accusing the group of being CIA spies they might get help to civilisation. Easy. Its like in BalKan, if the car breaks down, explain that you are swedish and you will get help in seconds. Everyone has a cousin in Sweden, but everyone has also a cousin that was killed by NATO during the war.
Unfortunately the military guy doesnt see that since he has only been militarying with the NG.

Good luck and remember to bring gear next time.
 
Largely agree with nodh.
Also, being on the Inka Trail you would definitely be better off staying put. Assuming you mean THE Inka Trail, there's plenty of groups of people doing this trail at basically all times of the year, so you would very soon be spotted by other people coming along. This would obviously improve the situation immensely.
Also, what kind of emergency are we talking when no-one was hurt - Robbery? Lost valuables in some other way? Lost directions? Someone got sick? Why did the guides leave in the first place - that sounds like a really serious danger might be hanging over people?

/ Karl
 
This could be an intentional setup for rebels or
bandits etc. I would find a position, off the trail,
where I could observe groups moving up and down
the trail. Are they tourists or armed locals?
Get out the binoculars or camera with telephoto lens.

With the above strategy, the group could be a big
liability. Would everyone be serious and disciplined
for stealth tactics? No, because they are not
motivated (no rebels seen yet), and even if rebels
have been seen, talking, noise, sign/tracks are
still likely. Asses the group members for discipline
and compliance.

On staying with the group, probably not.
With the military type, I would talk to him, to see
if he had been in this area before.
If yes, this could be good (he's knowledgeable)
and bad (rebels could be after him).
 
Great replies. I didn't use the word emergency. I believe emergency and Survival situation are different. Obviously, an emergency is Right NOW one or more people's lives are in danger, where as a SS is a situation where you need to prevent a seriously bad situation from getting worse. There is no immediate threat to lose of life and limb.

One thing to consider is going alone does present you with the possibility of meeting up with rebels and you would be the only male.

CZ75b, The map and car are gone, the guides split on you. You are in a foriegn country. Rebels are possibly in the area. The chance of rescue is slim. You are off the trail. Man, you guys are tough. I thought this would be challenging. I guess not.

This post is a poor attempt at creating a situation which forces you to make a decision where there are no good decisions. I often think of these scenarios where you are forced to deal with uncomparative people. I always end up not sure.

Thanks for responses!
 
The 3 year old is the wildcard for me. If it was just me, or me and my wife I'd happily go my own way. But with a smaller child along I'd have to think harder about leaving the group.
 
chrisaloia said:
You are on a eco-tour gone bad with your wife and 3 year old child in a foriegn country. It is summertime but in the mountains of Peru, somewhere along the Incan trail. On the tour with you there are 5 Americans, 3 females and 2 males and a german couple with 2 children. One of the Americans is an ex-military guy around 40-ish, who has appointed himself leader and the others are falling inline.

Remember, you are in a foreign country and the tour company you chose was the cheapest deal you can find. A speedy rescue is not in the cards. No one was injured and the guides took off and you are off the trail. Also, in Peru there are rebel groups that hide in mountain areas.

You are prepared as any of us normally would be for circumstances such as these. You don't have GPS or a compass or even a map. You picked up a machete at a local market, you also have a knife and a pocket tool, a typical altoids kit, some nutritional bars, snacks, and 100' of paracord. Both you and your wife have a small backpack with warm clothes in it. The others have backpacks with typical eco-tour stuff but none have the survival gear you have nor are they aware of what you have or know.

The Self appointed leader, now known as SAL, has decided to go in a direction you are not comfortable with. Everyone else IS going with him. You tried to dissuade SAL from going in his chosen direction but he didn't even consider your idea. Talking further is futile. He has dogmatically decided he knows the best way.

What do you chose? Go with the pack or take your family and head in a different direction?
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IF I really was headed the right way and his was the wrong way, its a no brainer. Though you have to draw the line somewhere, if your denying his choice out of jelousy or something than thats just dum. If someone has more experience than you, and your just disagring for the sake of it.......

So, in short, if hes making a stupid desicion, I take the right one, and make my own choices.

Like Emanuel, I not one for following the leader.
 
Fonly said:
IF I really was headed the right way and his was the wrong way, its a no brainer. Though you have to draw the line somewhere, if your denying his choice out of jelousy or something than thats just dum. If someone has more experience than you, and your just disagring for the sake of it.......

So, in short, if hes making a stupid desicion, I take the right one, and make my own choices.

Like Emanuel, I not one for following the leader.
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You are not 100% certain and you have your whole family not just by yourself to think of. XMP said it very well, If you are alone it is an easier decision.
 
Whether or not my family and I travel with the group or not depends entirely on the situation that got us where we are, as well as what information we received prior to embarking on our tour. Since we were informed that there are rebels in them thar hills, a fire might not be the best idea, but I agree that the group as a whole needs to take a time out to rest and study the situation. The ex-mil dude should already know this and is going to have to listen to my point that all sides of the equation need to be considered, before making any decisions involving moving from where we are. If our choices are limited, which they probably are at this point. I'm thinking that time should be taken to scout our surroundings prior to traveling. Since it is a tour, I'm pretty sure that many of us have camera's with zoom or telephoto lenses, as well as binoculars, so getting LD views at our surrounding area shouldn't really be a problem. Once the intel is gathered and evaluated, then we can start making decisions on what we can do.

If I decide that my family will travel with the group, I will let the mil dude know what I am carrying. Something that should be done as a group anyways. That way we know what we have to work with and the skills that the members of our group own.

I definitely agree that if we encounter anyone, the Americans should keep their mouths shut and the German male should do all of the talking. No sense making a bad scenario worse by turning those that might help, into politically motivated enemies.
 
chrisaloia said:
You are not 100% certain and you have your whole family not just by yourself to think of. XMP said it very well, If you are alone it is an easier decision.
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Ok, well even still, I have the resources to make my own decision. If my conclsions are close to his, then I'll follow. If not, its my way.
 
That is cool! fonly, I was just making it clear that there was some uncertainty.

Longbow50, I agree with the fire deal and that may be the simplest and most effective approach to this problem. A good fire made with a ferro rod and a knife could show the others that you know what you are talking about with out starting an argument. Then good group cohesive could be started from that point.
 
Another thing, in a situation like this its going to be very easy to make enemies. Its amazing how people blindly follow. I gotta agree though, proving youself is a good way to make some open their eyes. And heck show the guy what you think, for all you know he's open to sugestions. Even though he's taking charge, it makes sense.
 
100% certain of my decision and with standard trail rig on me, I'd talk to the Veteran and see if we couldn't discuss things AWAY from the group. If we didn't see eye to eye and he was so stubborn that he could come to no comprimise; away I go.

Three year olds are quite resilient, think of yourself at that age, or at least I was. He's priority one but he'll have already been exposed to this sort of thing, being my kid. I'd take the wife and kid away from the trail, set up a camp, and get things settled and figure out certain logistical concerns. Then make our way back the way we came. Out of sight from the trail but visible to us alongside it. Junior would be told to be very quite and to only whisper because we don't want to scare the butterflies (or something along those lines). Mommie would be told that we're in danger and need to get out, to keep an eye on Junior and watch our rear.

If we're already prepared then I'm not concerned for the wilderness aspect per se; it's the rebels that spook me. Call me paranoid, crazy, or whatever. Nor am I concerned with a fellow Brother in Arms that wants to be a hero (he was probably a POGGIE every Grunt knows not to try and be a hero :D). I'm concerned for my family. Period. Get back to where there's people and a US Embassy. If someone wants to follow that's fine but they have to do what I say (a bit narcissistic isn't it?) so they don't endanger my family. The minute they do, they're a liability and on their own. I know that sounds harsh but that's my wife and child you're talking about; their lives are far more important to me then some stranger.
 
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