What is the difference between...

TAH

TAH

Joined
Jul 3, 2001
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...ebony wood and African blackwood? Also, what the heck is black ivory?

Thanks!
 
TAH said:
...ebony wood and African blackwood? Also, what the heck is black ivory?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Black ivory is a wood, just like pink ivory. It comes from Africa, and is quite rare, but it is not an "ivory" that is animal tusk, it is a fanciful name for a very hard wood.

Ebony is heavy, cracks/checks and is extremely black.

Blackwood is heavy, stable and is black/brown.

Of the three woods, Black Ivory, Ebony and African blackwood can almost be used interchangeably, are listed in order of desireability.

For stability and use, african blackwood is king in my book!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Other than they are both "black", they don't have much in common.

African blackwood often has lighter streaks of medium or dark brown running through it. It is extremely dense - pick up equal sized blocks of ebony and blackwood and you won't have any difficulty telling which is which. For a big broad-bladed bowie, blackwood can be a good choice as it will better balance out the blade. Too many 'b's in that sentence.

African blackwood is very tough and in my experience, more resistant to shrinkage than ebony.

But if you want the absolute black-as-it-can-possibly be look, ebony takes the prize there.

Roger
 
Sorry to jump in with a little off topic question here, but based on what's been said about ebony so far, are there any special treatments or precautions that can be taken to avoid cracking? Thanks.

-Lindey
 
RogerP said:
Other than they are both "black", they don't have much in common.

African blackwood often has lighter streaks of medium or dark brown running through it. It is extremely dense - pick up equal sized blocks of ebony and blackwood and you won't have any difficulty telling which is which. Roger
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Roger, there is at best 10-15 lbs difference per cubic foot of density:

Woodfinder's Wood Library

Gaboon Ebony (which is what most people are talking about when they talk about ebony, but there is also Macassar ebony)

(Diospyrus spp.)

COMMON NAMES: Gaboon ebony, African ebony, Gabon ebony
SPECIFIC GRAVITY: 1.03

DENSITY: 63 pcf

TANGENTIAL MOVEMENT: 6.50%

RADIAL MOVEMENT: 5.50%

VOLUMETRIC SHRINKAGE:

DURABILITY: Very good

SOURCE: Gaboon, Southern Nigeria, Cameroon, and Zaire

DESCRIPTION: Color is jet black, sometimes with uneven gray to black stripes. This is believed to be the blackest wood grown. Sapwood is pale in color. Grain is straight to slightly interlocked. Texture is very fine. Very hard to work with hand or machine tools. A reduced angle of 20 degrees is needed when planing if irregular grain is present. Pre-boring is necessary. Excellent finish when polished. Used for piano and organ keys, organ stops, violin finger boards and pegs, parts of bagpipes and other instruments, handles on tools and knives, door knobs, butt ends of billiard cues, facing of tee squares, turnery, inlaid work,


African Blackwood

OTHER COMMON NAMES: African blackwood, Mozambique ebony, mpingo
SPECIFIC GRAVITY: 1.2

DENSITY: 75 to 83 pcf

VOLUMETRIC SHRINKAGE: 7.60%

DURABILITY: Very good

SOURCE: East Africa

DESCRIPTION: This dark colored wood appears black due to the many black streaks that run through it. It is a very hard, heavy and dense wood with a generally straight grain. It is difficult to work due to its resistance to cutting edges, and it gives an extreme blunting effect. Necessary to use a stellite or tungsten carbide-tipped saw. Tends to rise on cutters during machining. Slightly oily texture. Excellent to finish. Used for woodwind and other musical instruments, ornamental turnery, figure carving, walking sticks, knife handles, brushbacks, pulley blocks, bearings and slides, and inlays.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
African Blackwood is a member of the rosewood family. It is a joy to work with, polishes beautifully and doesn't require or benefit from being stabilized (it is so dense that it probably can't be stabilized). It is one of my favorite woods.
 
AND, because it is a rosewood, it works very easily. and it doesn';t tend to split like ebony, snakewood and ironwood. In my limited experience, both blackwood and lignum vitae, which are two of the densenst woods in the world, are very easy to work because the interior doesn't seem to harden up fully until it has been exposed to air for a while. I will be bringing a blackwood handled knife to Batsons. What I noticed about it and my lignum handled knives is that,if you hit them with a lttle bit of linseed oil and come back a few days later, they will have darkened in the air. So the yellowish lignum turns brown and the brown streaked blackwood turned as black as most ebony i have seen.
 
Lindey said:
Sorry to jump in with a little off topic question here, but based on what's been said about ebony so far, are there any special treatments or precautions that can be taken to avoid cracking? Thanks.

-Lindey
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Best treatment to prevent cracking of ebony is NOT TO USE IT:D ... Ive not had very good luck with it. All the knives I have used it on eventually developed checks. They can be filled but you can see them. I have stopped using gaboon ebony and will use blackwood in it's place.

Chuck
 
From my perspective as a maker, I will take African Blackwood over Ebony any day of the week! The reason? Ebony is like concrete in the respect that its not a matter of IF its going to crack.....but rather WHEN. I discourage customers who request Ebony because I know sooner or later that they will be asking me to either repair it, or replace it with something else. Just about anything you do to Ebony, from grinding to carving and/or texturing will encourage its already infuriating behavior of checking/cracking. I've not worked with "Black Ivory", so I cannot comment on it. However, I've had a lot of experience with Pink Ivory, and if Black Ivory is similar, I would have no issues what so ever with using it as a handle material.
 
African Blackwood is one of my favorite woods. It is great to work with, I love that fact that it is so stable and doesn't move like some other woods.

I have also used Black Ivory and it was a also great to work and came out very nice, unfortunately for me I had some kind of allergic reaction to it so I will not be using it again.
 
C-Camerer said:
African Blackwood is one of my favorite woods. It is great to work with, I love that fact that it is so stable and doesn't move like some other woods.

I have also used Black Ivory and it was a also great to work and came out very nice, unfortunately for me I had some kind of allergic reaction to it so I will not be using it again.
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Hey Craig....were you allergic to the sawdust or the price?:D I have the latter type of allergy when it comes to highly figured snakewood....along with the "cracking" allergy...:eek:
 
Thanks for all your replys. Great information here. Disappointing to hear that ebony has a tendency to crack. I really like the looks of ebony with Damascus.
 
Some seem to think professional stabelising makes a difference with ebony. I bought a piece of ebony that was. Went to use it a couple years ago and there was a crack already in it. I got my money back with no problem. I'm not sure if the crack was there before the treatment or if it happened afterwards.
 
I've never heard of, or seen a cracked violin fingerboard.. those are usually ebony, have been for hundreds of years. :confused: Something's not jiving..
David
 
Normally the fingerboards on instruments are thin and laminated to another more stable wood. There is probably a reason thaat ebony is not used more in musical instruments. It has a beutiful tone and would sound nice on a xylaphone. This is why rosewoods are used almost to exclusivity on claranets etc.

Chuck
 
I removed a black ivory handle off a knife I made about a month ago. When I ground it the dust was as fine as black flour, it was stabilized and still cracked. I had another piece and gave it away.
 
Does anyone have a reference to "Black Ivory"? I have not been able to find it and would like to look it up.

Chuck
 
Chuck, I just talked with a fellow I have know at Gilmer Woods for a number of years and asked him about black ivory. He said he had heard of it and may have seen a piece of it a long time ago. Its not listed in there wood index. He said to try woodfinder's and I got nothing there.
 
A C Richards said:
Normally the fingerboards on instruments are thin and laminated to another more stable wood. There is probably a reason thaat ebony is not used more in musical instruments. It has a beutiful tone and would sound nice on a xylaphone. This is why rosewoods are used almost to exclusivity on claranets etc.

Chuck
Click to expand...

most ebony fingerboards are no more than 1/8-3/16 thick in their finished form and they are hot glued to a more stable neck material like mahoghany, rosewood or maple. Ebony tends to be a bit brighter sounding that the other "holy grail" tonewood for guitar fingerboards, old growth Brazilian rosewood.
 
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