What is the difference between a $2,500.00 custom knife and a $300.00 custom knife. Obviously the more expensive is made by a better known name knife maker, but if the quality is there shouldn't the knife maintain a strong value? How do you fish out the guys who could one day be worth their weight in gold and in turn make your buy a good investment?
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What is the difference?
- Thread starter Barry
- Start date
Hopefully at some point you realize that buying knives isn't like investing in the stock market or something. The real joy for me doesn't come from watching the makers "worth" increase, but rather from enjoying the aesthetic, craftsmanship and brotherhood in this hobby.
Basically the difference between a $2500 and $300 knife is first probably materials, then complexity of design, and details. For $300 you'll most likely get a plainish simple good working knife. For $2500 you get a knife that is hopefully close to flawless and a true piece of art that you can appreciate.
I would guess (although I haven't been collecting for very long) that most of the time a $300 knife isn't going to apprecaite in monetary value. The real value, I think, comes in using and appreciating the knife yourself.
Don't know if this really answers your question, but it's kind of my perspective right now.
~Mitch
Basically the difference between a $2500 and $300 knife is first probably materials, then complexity of design, and details. For $300 you'll most likely get a plainish simple good working knife. For $2500 you get a knife that is hopefully close to flawless and a true piece of art that you can appreciate.
I would guess (although I haven't been collecting for very long) that most of the time a $300 knife isn't going to apprecaite in monetary value. The real value, I think, comes in using and appreciating the knife yourself.
Don't know if this really answers your question, but it's kind of my perspective right now.
~Mitch
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- 29,205
Welcome.
Sometimes it is correct that a much higher price is paid for a knife made by a well known maker than one of equal quality made by a relative newcomer. This well known maker had to pay his dues and so does the lesser known one. As time goes by, if the makers knives retain or improve in quality, he will be able to get a higher price for his knives as well.
You will have to find out from those that know more about knife collecting about how to gauge which makers knives will increase in value. I really don't care. I buy what I like and if they go up in value all the better, but it is of no importance to me what so ever.
Sometimes it is correct that a much higher price is paid for a knife made by a well known maker than one of equal quality made by a relative newcomer. This well known maker had to pay his dues and so does the lesser known one. As time goes by, if the makers knives retain or improve in quality, he will be able to get a higher price for his knives as well.
You will have to find out from those that know more about knife collecting about how to gauge which makers knives will increase in value. I really don't care. I buy what I like and if they go up in value all the better, but it is of no importance to me what so ever.
bandaidman
Basic Member
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- Feb 11, 2001
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Collectibles are at best a high risk investment (read that a bad investment). This is not to say people can't make money off knives because many have and some will continue to do so. There are fundamental problems with liquidity and small markets can be too easily manipulated (ie baseball cards, beanie babies, even high "art" etc). If you do not think this is true try to go down to a bank and get a loan using custom knives or any collectible as collateral.
Buy custom knives because you appreciate either the function or artistry they represent. Makers that produce great pieces will generally be worth more in the long run than those that produce lesser work but many of these better makers already have that premium built into their price. Don't buy into hype. Buy what you like and you will never be dissapointed.
Buy custom knives because you appreciate either the function or artistry they represent. Makers that produce great pieces will generally be worth more in the long run than those that produce lesser work but many of these better makers already have that premium built into their price. Don't buy into hype. Buy what you like and you will never be dissapointed.
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2001
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- 172
I agree with "bandaidman", sort of. Collectibles are risky/bad investments, unless you get lucky. I have recently been thinning out a life-long gun collection, and I'm taking a loss on a fair number of pieces. That's because I never bought them with the idea of selling then, so I sometimes paid too much to get something I really "needed". In any event, when I sell them at a loss, I still get money I would not get if I had spent it on travel, entertainment, etc.,......OR put it in my IRA!
Mikey - Littleton, CO
Mikey - Littleton, CO
Welcome to the Forums!
To answer your question, about $2200...Okay, okay you knew that was coming right? Somebody had to do it...
Anyway in the short time I have been involved in acquiring knives, the difference to me is due to 1) the maker 2)materials 3) details.
The maker BY FAR seems to be the biggest factor.
Aloha
To answer your question, about $2200...Okay, okay you knew that was coming right? Somebody had to do it...
Anyway in the short time I have been involved in acquiring knives, the difference to me is due to 1) the maker 2)materials 3) details.
The maker BY FAR seems to be the biggest factor.
Aloha
- Joined
- Oct 4, 1998
- Messages
- 4,131
Excellent answers here. I am also going to throw a makers time into the equation.
As far as investments, I would stick with more standard methods and just use discretionary income if this is a hobby for you. With some studying and thought on what you order, who you order it from, and never being in a hurry to sell a knife, it is not hard to break even or realize a little gain or on occasions realize a decent gain, but there are much easier and less risky investment vehicles out there.
One of the best things about Custom Knives is getting to use them (although I do not use all the ones I own) and the knowledge that it takes to be able to appreciate them, the work and abilities that went into making them.
As far as investments, I would stick with more standard methods and just use discretionary income if this is a hobby for you. With some studying and thought on what you order, who you order it from, and never being in a hurry to sell a knife, it is not hard to break even or realize a little gain or on occasions realize a decent gain, but there are much easier and less risky investment vehicles out there.
One of the best things about Custom Knives is getting to use them (although I do not use all the ones I own) and the knowledge that it takes to be able to appreciate them, the work and abilities that went into making them.
- Joined
- Oct 5, 1998
- Messages
- 3,148
Looking at my portfolio, custom knives and guns are certainly a part of my "total net worth".
They are tangible items. I can sell them all TOMORROW, for cash, and in most(75%) cases -make 10-25%-profit without taking a tax hit.
My meager portfolio is set up this way.
25% 401-k (company stock) and other stock (100% stock)
25% CASH in CD's
15% Liquid tangibles (Guns, knives, watches)
20% Real Estate Equity (home)
How can I sell knives that I bought "retail" for a profit?
Buy knives from makers who are well known, but generally have large wait times. Usually i buy in the aftermarket from guys who have done the waiting for me, Ebay has yielded a few, the forums a few, shows very few.
I have specialized in knives made by ABS Master Bladesmiths (and a few Journeyman smiths). The most prolific maker that I collect may make 75 knives per year, while most make far, far less.
When you buy a knife by Crowell, Dean, Fisk, Massey, etc.
You buy a knife that is sure to go up in value, as long as you bought it for close to the makers price.(within 10%)
I buy and trade a few stocks here and there but NONE have obviously been as rewarding as the knives.
Some ABS smiths whose knives are "sleepers" right now are John Fitch's and Kevin Cashen's. Bagwell knives have a huge following too.
I could easily have specialized in Loveless, or Moran but wanted to buy more, nicer knives that were worth less. I was extremely attracted to the forged blade, and some of quality I have seen by the ABS guys is awesome. Their rigorous testing appeals to my practical side.
I think it is also important to buy knives of a certain price point for resale, usually under $1000 dollars. That is the break point, usually for me, sometimes to my detriment. I missed a Bowie for $1400 at Blade that I wasn't willing to "pony up" for. The purchaser turned around and sold it for for $2200, I believe that same weekend.
Lesson learned. I wont make that mistake again.
As Les always says, do your homework. Pick something you like, learn ALOT about it. Talk to purveyors and talk to makers. There is a reason some of them are 5 years or more behind. That doesn't mean you cannot own their knives now, and never, ever lose a dime on the purchase.
Most custom knife buyers have no idea what quality really is.
Some of the JUNK being sold as a "custom" knife will NEVER go up in value. A standard vanilla tactical folder, likewise will never go up in value in the SHORT-TERM unless it is made by Emerson, Onion, or Ryan. A "generic" big-name tactical will however, hold its value quite well if left unused over the period of a few years, however technology and advances in steel and materials have negated alot of that appreciation.
After selling a modest collection of discontinued factory knives this summer I:
put a deck on my house
bought a hot tub
paid the electrician for wiring said tub
purchased 2 custom pistols
paid off a vehicle (5K)
and bought more ABS bowies and hunters.
All it took was sharp buying for the past 5-7 years and a willingness to let go of some old knives that weren't "loving me back".The makers
I am really "hot" for right now are Fisk, Crowell, Dean, Massey,Connor,Zowada, Fogg-Kemal, Fitch, Fuegen, JD Smith, etc. etc.
I will buy almost any Fisk knife in my budget. The only maker on that list I don't own a knife from is Fogg and Fuegen, and I am trying
They are tangible items. I can sell them all TOMORROW, for cash, and in most(75%) cases -make 10-25%-profit without taking a tax hit.
My meager portfolio is set up this way.
25% 401-k (company stock) and other stock (100% stock)
25% CASH in CD's
15% Liquid tangibles (Guns, knives, watches)
20% Real Estate Equity (home)
How can I sell knives that I bought "retail" for a profit?
Buy knives from makers who are well known, but generally have large wait times. Usually i buy in the aftermarket from guys who have done the waiting for me, Ebay has yielded a few, the forums a few, shows very few.
I have specialized in knives made by ABS Master Bladesmiths (and a few Journeyman smiths). The most prolific maker that I collect may make 75 knives per year, while most make far, far less.
When you buy a knife by Crowell, Dean, Fisk, Massey, etc.
You buy a knife that is sure to go up in value, as long as you bought it for close to the makers price.(within 10%)
I buy and trade a few stocks here and there but NONE have obviously been as rewarding as the knives.
Some ABS smiths whose knives are "sleepers" right now are John Fitch's and Kevin Cashen's. Bagwell knives have a huge following too.
I could easily have specialized in Loveless, or Moran but wanted to buy more, nicer knives that were worth less. I was extremely attracted to the forged blade, and some of quality I have seen by the ABS guys is awesome. Their rigorous testing appeals to my practical side.
I think it is also important to buy knives of a certain price point for resale, usually under $1000 dollars. That is the break point, usually for me, sometimes to my detriment. I missed a Bowie for $1400 at Blade that I wasn't willing to "pony up" for. The purchaser turned around and sold it for for $2200, I believe that same weekend.
Lesson learned. I wont make that mistake again.
As Les always says, do your homework. Pick something you like, learn ALOT about it. Talk to purveyors and talk to makers. There is a reason some of them are 5 years or more behind. That doesn't mean you cannot own their knives now, and never, ever lose a dime on the purchase.
Most custom knife buyers have no idea what quality really is.
Some of the JUNK being sold as a "custom" knife will NEVER go up in value. A standard vanilla tactical folder, likewise will never go up in value in the SHORT-TERM unless it is made by Emerson, Onion, or Ryan. A "generic" big-name tactical will however, hold its value quite well if left unused over the period of a few years, however technology and advances in steel and materials have negated alot of that appreciation.
After selling a modest collection of discontinued factory knives this summer I:
put a deck on my house
bought a hot tub
paid the electrician for wiring said tub
purchased 2 custom pistols
paid off a vehicle (5K)
and bought more ABS bowies and hunters.
All it took was sharp buying for the past 5-7 years and a willingness to let go of some old knives that weren't "loving me back".The makers
I am really "hot" for right now are Fisk, Crowell, Dean, Massey,Connor,Zowada, Fogg-Kemal, Fitch, Fuegen, JD Smith, etc. etc.
I will buy almost any Fisk knife in my budget. The only maker on that list I don't own a knife from is Fogg and Fuegen, and I am trying
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2001
- Messages
- 1,981
I certainly do not qualify as a collector. Still, have a couple thoughts on it.
One of the biggest problems with knives is that the appreciation -- mental -- of them is so subjective. I think it is a fact that talent does not always succeed in any craft or art, especially in the early years. A large part of that is because collection as you've indicated you see it, is a financial situation. That means that there are influences on the market/prices that often have little to do with true ability.
History goes a long ways for some folks. For instance, I've read multiple statements on the threads that there are many makers who make better knives now than Bill Moran. Yet, given his role in the knife world, his knives are going to sell for large prices, particularly on the after market. Similar things have been said about Bob Loveless.
There is a maker who, in my estimation, is just about average, whose aftermarket prices are way up there. I believe I could find 2-3 dozen makers who make as good or better knives that are priced at about 25% of this maker's aftermarket price. I think there are makers whose knives sell for about the aftermarket price of this makers' knives, that would be far better knives, usually with much more expensive materials to boot.
There is one more maker who, in my estimation is one of the very top guns in design ability. I think he's doing okay, but it is pretty obvious that not too many custom knife customers share my viewpoint. His prices have risen, but are still quite affordable. If I were to follow my "hunch" about this guy, I'd buy every one of his knives I could possibly afford. But, I think I'd end up with a collection of very good looking knives, very well made, that never will appreciate a whole bunch in value.
The trick is, to pick out the relatively new maker who really "has something", in your estimation. Buy some, and if the knife collecting world ever agrees with you, you'll have made a lot of money. If not, you probably didn't put too much money into them anyhow.
I suggest you collect what you like, and just enjoy your knives. Have fun.
One of the biggest problems with knives is that the appreciation -- mental -- of them is so subjective. I think it is a fact that talent does not always succeed in any craft or art, especially in the early years. A large part of that is because collection as you've indicated you see it, is a financial situation. That means that there are influences on the market/prices that often have little to do with true ability.
History goes a long ways for some folks. For instance, I've read multiple statements on the threads that there are many makers who make better knives now than Bill Moran. Yet, given his role in the knife world, his knives are going to sell for large prices, particularly on the after market. Similar things have been said about Bob Loveless.
There is a maker who, in my estimation, is just about average, whose aftermarket prices are way up there. I believe I could find 2-3 dozen makers who make as good or better knives that are priced at about 25% of this maker's aftermarket price. I think there are makers whose knives sell for about the aftermarket price of this makers' knives, that would be far better knives, usually with much more expensive materials to boot.
There is one more maker who, in my estimation is one of the very top guns in design ability. I think he's doing okay, but it is pretty obvious that not too many custom knife customers share my viewpoint. His prices have risen, but are still quite affordable. If I were to follow my "hunch" about this guy, I'd buy every one of his knives I could possibly afford. But, I think I'd end up with a collection of very good looking knives, very well made, that never will appreciate a whole bunch in value.
The trick is, to pick out the relatively new maker who really "has something", in your estimation. Buy some, and if the knife collecting world ever agrees with you, you'll have made a lot of money. If not, you probably didn't put too much money into them anyhow.
I suggest you collect what you like, and just enjoy your knives. Have fun.