What is the down side of an H1 blade?

[scotchleaf]

I just read a post about H1 vs. ZDP 189: "H1 tasman salt. Zdp189 hardness but much tougher."

What is the down side of H1?

Not rust resistance.
cost?
toughness?
hardness?

 

[yablanowitz]

1) H-1 is very expensive.

2) In Plain edge, the edge holding is vastly inferior to ZDP-189, or VG-10. It does well serrated, though.

3) H-1 work hardens as it is being ground, so the only commercially viable way to make blades is a hollow saber grind where both sides are ground at once. Too bad for the FFG fans.

4) Hardness is only part of the story for edge holding. H-1 is not very wear resistant. And the hardness you see mentioned is only at the edge. The farther you get from the edge, the easier it scratches. Most of my H-1 knives look like they've been through a shredder.

 

[loon#r]

After hacking a vined tangle of branches with my salt I noticed that the blade had a huge indent and chunk missing. Pretty soft. Excellent in water as purposed. It does especially well in St. Thomas and Croix waters . I still recommend it :thumbup:.

 

[The Deacon]

H-1 is not just rust resistant. Short of soaking it in something corrosive enough to cause severe burns if it got on your skin, it is corrosion proof. ZDP-189, while technically classified as stainless steel, is one of the least rust resistant stainless steels out there. For plain edged blades, ZDP-189 will hold an edge far longer PE H-1, but when serrated, H-1 holds an edge better and the tips of the serrations won't snap off like those of serrated ZDP-189 will. the flats of an H-1 blade will scratch far more easily than those of a solid ZDP-189 blade, but about the same as the 420J2 outer layers on a laminated ZDP-189 blade. Both are more expensive that VG-10. Not sure which is more expensive than the other, but I suspect ZDp-189 is the more costly. ZDP-189 can be hollow, saber, or full flat ground while H-1 cannot be full flat ground.

 

[carbonsteelfan]

I think l can tell you my take on this matter. A friend of mine one day brought his H1 pacific salt to my home. I got out my Cousin's VG-10 Endura. Both the knives had plain edges. We decided to see which had better edge retention by cutting card board. VG-10 had a clear cut win against H1 in this task. The edge holding ability of a PE H1 blade is pretty dismal when compared to VG-10 ( and l won't even start to compare it with ZDP-189)
Next we decided to perform the same test between A PE Tasman salt in H1 and a PE ATS-55 Merlin. The Merlin had at least 25% superior edge retention.
Bottom line : a PE blade of H1 has pretty inferior edge retention compared to other steels.
Also H1 cannot be had in a flat grind blade. Hollow saber grinds only.

Now ; l would like to say something good about H1. The serrated models have very good edge retention. A SE Tasman with an H1 blade has much better edge retention than a SE ATS-55 Merlin. And a serrated H1 Tasman holds almost as good an edge as a SE VG-10 Harpy does. But still VG-10 holds a slightly better edge.

 

[marthinus]

The only downside is that there is not enough of it!

All things aside, H-1 is a tough, very corrosion resistant steel not marketed or designed as a high carbide wear resistant steel.

In my experience, if you cut a lot of dirty material where impact with impurities no matter the steel it will dull. Fast. ZDP-189 and similar will dull through micro fractyre and H-1 and similar will dull through rolling (INFI is probably the best example)


All steels are a compramise between properties. There is no be all end all.

 

[James Y]

I've actually found, in most cases, a SE H1 blade holds it's edge better than SE VG-10. It might vary with the blade, though; I prefer my serrations to not be overly deep/narrow. My favorite SE's are my Pacific and Tasman Salts.

As far as scratches, I don't mind at all. Since my H1 knives are pure users. I don't consider H1, at least in folders, to be suitable for chopping/batoning.

Sometimes, the edge on H1 can roll a bit, but I've not had any chipping. In my experience, it's pretty easy to fix a rolled H1 edge with the Sharpmaker.

Jim

 

[John_0917]

The only downsides I can think of, and I'm reaching here are:

1) It is scratch prone.

2) It works best in serrated form and sharpening a serrated blade requires a bit more specialized tools than a plain edge.

 

[Lycosa]

No downside.
A Serrated Salt folder is the only knife I would ever need.
Alas, but I'm a knut.
rolf

 

[Evany]

I have a Salt 1 SE and I love it. I had a Pacific Salt in PE and found that the edge did not hold up that well for my uses. The only downside other than the softness of the PE blades is that Spyderco does not offer them in FFG

 

[oxman198]

So why does it hold an edge so much longer in SE over PE?

 

[Redmasta]

You can't give it a forced patina

 

[marthinus]

So why does it hold an edge so much longer in SE over PE?

I personally think it is a combination of higher hardness and lower edge angle.

My experience with my reground Salt 1 and Nitrobe-77 (also a very corrosion resistant steel containing Nitrogen with high obtainable hardness) has shown me that lower edge angles and sharpening ability of the user for specific applications has a significant affect on edge retention. More so than the steel used.

 

[carbonsteelfan]

Hey ; while we're on the subject... which steel is tougher/ stronger ? H1 or VG-10 ?

 

[marthinus]

Hey ; while we're on the subject... which steel is tougher/ stronger ? H1 or VG-10 ?

H-1, because it is a low carbide steel.

If you Google. 'Sanvik choosing the right knife steel' you can read some basics on metallurgy.

 

[oxman198]

I personally think it is a combination of higher hardness and lower edge angle.

My experience with my reground Salt 1 and Nitrobe-77 (also a very corrosion resistant steel containing Nitrogen with high obtainable hardness) has shown me that lower edge angles and sharpening ability of the user for specific applications has a significant affect on edge retention. More so than the steel used.

Interesting point, thanks for the reply. Kinda has me scratching my head as to all the posts stating that a SE H-1 blade will hold an edge longer than an SE blade of other steel, but the plain edge H-1 will dull faster than non H-1 PE's.

 

[The Deacon]

Interesting point, thanks for the reply. Kinda has me scratching my head as to all the posts stating that a SE H-1 blade will hold an edge longer than an SE blade of other steel, but the plain edge H-1 will dull faster than non H-1 PE's.

I suspect that it's because there's more grinding involved in making a SE blade and that H-1 is, at least partially, work hardened. Would be interesting to compare the edge holding of a standard Spyderco PE H-1 blade with on that had been reground to a FFG.