What is the flipping all about???

Joined
Jul 2, 1999
Messages
1,347

Hey guys,
Congratulations on the new forum.

Since I don't see any questions posted here yet, i'll contribute.

When the knives were originally invented were they intended to be fighting knives?? If so, why all the fliping? How would you use the swinging of the handles in a combat application and why??

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Louis Buccellato
http://www.themartialway.com
Knives, Weapons and equipment. Best prices anywhere.
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"only the paranoid will survive":)


 
Lois,
I enjoy flicking my folders. Flipping a Balisong around is like taking it to the next level!!!
Now that my Jaguar is getting worn out and we have this new forum to keep my Bali interest going........I think it's time for one of those new BM's
smile.gif

Neil
PS: Thanks Clay and Golnick for dovoting your time to do this!!

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Blackwood Knives
More knives in stock! New Talonite models soon!!
http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Meeting/5520/index.html
 
Here is another good site that has a good bit of history. http://www.balisong.com/

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Mike Turber
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Well, the history of the balisong is obscure. Nobody knows exactly when or where it was invented. My best indication is that the design was originally actually French. With all due respect to Mr. Fred Perrin, and a lot of respect is due to Mr. Perrin, this pretty much casts doubts on it's origin as a fighting knife.

I also have to, having made this assertion, fight off attacks (armed and otherwise) from those who insist that the balisong is a Filipino invention. But, the oldest historical evidence I have indicates a European, and probably French origin. My theory is that from France, the balisong spread to Spain and that a Spanish sailor probably brought the first balisong to the Philippines around 1900. Did that sailor think of it as a weapon? I don't know. But, I do know that the Filipinos who saw it immediately recognized its potential as a weapon as well as as a utility tool.

Now, I would like to also point out that there are two types of manipulation: combative and artistic. Combative manipulations emphasise speed and control. They are simple and direct. As manipulations get more complex, they take longer and they increasing risk dropping the knife, especially if you have an opponent who may be pushing, hitting, kicking, etc., you. These longer, more complex openings become artistic. These are only for show.

Most of balisong manipulation is a non-combative art. However, there are great benefits to it. In practicing these elaborate manipulations, you develope confidence with the knife and you develope a feel for your knife. These developments can only help you in a combative situation.



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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.4cs.net/~gollnick
 
The manipulations you'll see on my site and on Palacio's, (at the more Advanced levels)are mostly to develope hand coordination, and confidence.

It's actually kind of addictive once you get a few moves down. And that addiction results in many hours of practicing (and usually, you don't even realize it).

When used for Self Defense, opening quickly is the key. Draw and cut........ period!

The advantage of all the manipulative practice shows itself in the ability to move effortlessly between grips, forward and reverse as well as between hands. It's all about building an intimate knowledge of your weapon.

Lets face it, with two moving handles there are many possibilities for a problem. The more you flip, the more ways you discover to avoid them, or rebound from them, or better yet..... use them to your advantage.




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Clay
www.balisongxtreme.com
Because......
getting 'em open
is half the fun!
 
I'd like to add some people do teach the swinging handle as a technique. Sonny Umpad's "Balisong, Filipino Art of Knife Fighting" mentions this. Chuck and Clay both cover this book in their pages. I myself wouldn't do it.
 
Ahh, this is much better. Recognition at last, Clay!

Now, proprietary tac applications of the balisong. I trot this out all the time, but it bears trotting: The handle flail. In the process of a double-flip opening, one may use the first flip as a flail against hard targets. This could be a nice distance-gaining maneuver or a way to "defang the snake". Control the energy of the balisong much as you would a nunchaku; you would be amazed how much nunchaku stuff transfers to the balisong.

That said, having the knife open before engagement of any kind is always a good thing.

And as for being designed as a fighting knife, I really doubt it. I tend to believe Gollnick over Filipino lore, though that could change with better info from the Filipino camp.

I've seen examples of French or German balisongs from the late 19th century. They seem pretty utilitarian. I think they were sold as a neat-o alternative to other utility folders, and I'll bet that their makers opened them two handed (at least for a little while).
 
The handle can be used in a whipping manner when opening. It can be opened downward at a hand or wrist, hopefully breaking a bone. You could probably do this on a horizontal plane at an attacker's eyes or nose. I guess it all depends on the situation. As for the fancy openings...they definitely look cool and I'm trying to learn some of them! I don't think it would be wise to stand there twirling a balisong in a knife fight, unless you are changing from forward grip to reverse grip(which can also be done without moving the handles).


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K. Williams
kel620@aol.com
Modern Arnis Student
 
K,

I find the handle whip strike works best up the centerline, striking under the chin (upward). It'll make ya' see stars, thats for sure! Talk about a good distraction.

I don't know about breaking bones with this move though. It would take a huge amount of force to do that. Though I agree that solid bone targets will yield the best results, pain wise.

Knuckles, sides of the wrist, elbows, jaw, back of the skull, cheeek bones. All are fairly solid bone structures, but lack muscle tissue to cushion the blow of a whip attack.


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Clay
www.balisongxtreme.com
Because......
getting 'em open
is half the fun!
 
Please keep in mind, also, that one of the great things about a balisong is that it's a great weapon even closed. A closed balisong makes a great striking weapon and a great punch weight. It's great for destruct techniques. It can be used to reinforce joint locks, etc. And, it can be concealed in your hand quite nicely.

You can, for example, walk down the street carrying a closed balisong in your hand and nobody will even notice. Your initial response to a confrontation may be to strike with the closed balisong. This may buy you a moments time and a foot's distance to either turn and run away, or to open the knife and escalate the situation.

This all fits very nicely into Filipino combative arts and is why the Filipinos were so quick to adopt the balisong.

They may not have invented it, but they sure took it to a new level.



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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
 
Hmmm... what is the flipping all about?

Intimidation, I guess.
smile.gif
hehehe...

Geez... Now that this forum is online, I guess I'll have to scrunge up, and get myself a BM bali.
smile.gif
Not that there are a bunch of them just 2 hours away from where I live, but I would really like to hold one that's "different". I'm rather tired of brass handles and deerhorn scales, or imitation wood scales for that matter, which are consistently being passed off as "narra" wood scales (Narra is our country's national tree, and is illegal to cut down).

Then again, I might go bonkers, and purchase one of those grand-daddy balisongs with a 30" blade! Any of you guys wanna teach me how to flick this thing?! lol...

Dan

 
Well when I was out in Indianapolis a few years ago, a guy at a Mall did a Demo with some ribs he had hanging, not sure of his technique but he flipped the knife open and as it opened it slashed into the ribs with a LOT of force, impressive to say the least.

One of the problems I have in manipulating is the finger twirl that Jeff Imada does in his videos, can't get the hang of that at all, but you know what they say:

`How do you get to Carnige Hall?
Practice, Practice, Practice!

G2

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"The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions!"
Take the time to read your Bible Now, don't be left behind...


G2 LeatherWorks
 
G2.. if it is the finger twirls you need best practice 'rockers' on Clay's site.. seriously.. doing it in boring classes helped me oodled.. i didn't believe it too - believe me.. kinda like i also didnt believe that replacign crummy nails on your jag woudl be any good.. imagine my surprise an hour into the machine shop
smile.gif


If anyone can show me how to flip the 5 foot balisong in my closet I woudl bow down to you.. no seriously..


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<A HREF="http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~soo/balisong/balisong.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~soo/balisong/balisong.html
</A> If you play with love you will be heartbroken; if you play with knives you will [bleed]


 
Hmm flipping the Veintenueve. Tempting. Chuck or Clay should have their review of it up soon. I believe I emailed Chuck my experience with it.
 
I have found only three manipulations for my 30" balisong. One is a sort of double-flip done over the shoulder. I seem to recall having been taught this once. The second is a simple double-flip out-to-in. I would not suggest this to someone who does not have strong wrists. Fortunately, stick training gives you strong wrists, especially when you insist on heavy sticks. The final is the classic latch drop. If you're short, you may not be able to get this.

I have visions of some other manipulations that I'm working on.



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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
 
Chuck,

How in the world were you able to get that oversized sword/knife into the States??!

Dan
 
Now there's something I'd love to see. How about putting some video clips of 30" bali manipulation on your sites, Chuck, Clay?

And Susan, when will you show the world a pic of your super bali 5 footer???


just a friendly request
-SgtP (not Sgt TP
smile.gif
)
 
How did I get that large knife into the country??? Young Chinese secret! Actually, it was Susan who did that, so you'll have to ask her how.

When I get something worth showing, I'll post some video.



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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
 
Originally posted by Gollnick
When I get something worth showing, I'll post some video.
Well, did you get something worth showing? I'd like to see some of this! :D :D
 
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