Hello there, this is my first post on bladeforums. I've been in the process of setting up a small knife sharpening business in the past few months. While I've purchased a few files for doing mower blades and chainsaws, etc., I still haven't made a major purchase of a knife sharpening system. ttytt, I'm somewhat overwhelmed by all the choice available. I've corresponded with a few of the various sharpening system makers, including the Edge Pro (a bit out of my price range), KME Sharpening, and the Razor Sharp Paper Wheels. Pretty well everyone I've corresponded with suggests that a manual sharpening system is not sufficient by itself, that I should also at least have a belt sander for more aggressive stock removal work. While this may be true, I'm really looking for a manual system for the majority of my knife sharpening work, as I will be focusing primarily on the residential market, and I'd like to be able to carry my sharpening system with me wherever I go in a satchel, as well as be able to set it up in anyone's kitchen, without a lot of noise, dust, power cords, etc. However, I'm concerned, due to what others have told me, that this will not be a very efficient system. I don't really want to be spending half an hour sharpening one knife, or I will quickly outstay my welcome in a client's home! I am quite interested in the diamond sharpening system provided by DMT, and wonder if perhaps it is the most efficient manual sharpening system - their coarser stones are supposed to be quite efficient. Does anyone here have any other recommendations or suggestions? Any help here would be much appreciated!
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What is the most efficient manual sharpening system?
- Thread starter Randorf
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David Martin
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Norton's JUM-3 is hard to beat and will last you a lifetime while being very portable. A large crystolon coarse/ fine stone and a sharpening base housing unit can be purchased for it. It will sharpen any steel quickly.
DM
DM
hmm, i've never heard of crystolon. i've learned it's Norton's term for silicone carbide. those stones look good. i like the fact that it will last a lifetime, as compared to diamond stones (DMT) that i had been considering, that are due to wear out and need replacing every so often. would you have any recommendations for serrated blades? how about for household scissors?
DMT stones should service you a long time if you simply use light pressure. But if you're like me, you're bound to put a bit of excessive pressure at times which will eventually lead to the stone "wearing out." This is why I chose the Crystolon/SiC stone to do my coarse grinding.
For serrated blades... I am not familiar with what's good in a serrated sharpener. The only ones I really know of are the DMT Diasharp rods. I have one in Coarse, but I don't find it to be that effective. There ought to be some sort of curved bench stone of some sort, but I have yet to find one offered by a mainstream company.
I have a Norton combo stone: Med Crystolon / Fine India . I've had it for a number of years and have used it quite a bit, but NOTHING like you would professionally. The Crystolon side is almost all I use and it is very lightly dished out in one quadrant. I noticed it happening and thought I was imagining things until it became more pronounced. It's still not bad at all. Someone who knows how could probably flatten it fairly easily.
It still cuts pretty fast, though it seems to have gotten smoother somehow over time and use.
I more recently got a number of DMT plates including the XXC. The XXC cuts like a demon. It's so freaky aggressive and fast, it's hard to believe. It's not magic, but it *is* incredibly abrasive. BladeForums member "unit" says he's had his first DMT plate for 20 years now and his still cuts well. Just a data point.
For serrations you need something with a small-ish radius and the ability to hold either the stone or the blade at a relatively fixed angle. The aforementioned diamond rods that are tapered *should* work really well, but I'd be really careful with them, as diamonds are aggressive and serrations tend to be very thin. I've made nasty "bit marks" in serrations when grinding in the same spot.
For knives that aren't too far gone, the humble SharpMaker does serrations quite well. They say to only use the white (fine) rods on serrations, but I've had to resort to the gray (medium) rods on one knife and they worked quite well, if not overly quickly. I think it took me a total of about 45 minutes of very careful work on a knife that had been used and abused for years.
Spyderco (maker of the SharpMaker) also makes some contoured ceramic stones called "profiles". Get it? They are the exact same material as the SharpMaker stones, just shaped differently. Some people swear by the profiles for their versatility. In this video, JDavis (a member here) shows how he uses the profiles to sharpen a serrated blade. This is solid technique and should work if you can hold the constant angle like he does.
Jdavis882 sharpens serrations by hand
From what little I know about the business, you really do need a belt sander or paper wheel system for the problem blades you're going to encounter. Unless you can guarantee blades being in "good" condition, you need something that will take out chips, reshape tips, etc, faster than you can do it by hand. Even with the XXC it took me 45+ minutes to regrind a tip and take out 2 chips in a knife recently.
There's a thread over on knifeforums by a member named Navy, who's started his own sharpening business. Several actually. You might go read what he's written.
Best of luck to you!
Brian.
It still cuts pretty fast, though it seems to have gotten smoother somehow over time and use.
I more recently got a number of DMT plates including the XXC. The XXC cuts like a demon. It's so freaky aggressive and fast, it's hard to believe. It's not magic, but it *is* incredibly abrasive. BladeForums member "unit" says he's had his first DMT plate for 20 years now and his still cuts well. Just a data point.
For serrations you need something with a small-ish radius and the ability to hold either the stone or the blade at a relatively fixed angle. The aforementioned diamond rods that are tapered *should* work really well, but I'd be really careful with them, as diamonds are aggressive and serrations tend to be very thin. I've made nasty "bit marks" in serrations when grinding in the same spot.
For knives that aren't too far gone, the humble SharpMaker does serrations quite well. They say to only use the white (fine) rods on serrations, but I've had to resort to the gray (medium) rods on one knife and they worked quite well, if not overly quickly. I think it took me a total of about 45 minutes of very careful work on a knife that had been used and abused for years.
Spyderco (maker of the SharpMaker) also makes some contoured ceramic stones called "profiles". Get it? They are the exact same material as the SharpMaker stones, just shaped differently. Some people swear by the profiles for their versatility. In this video, JDavis (a member here) shows how he uses the profiles to sharpen a serrated blade. This is solid technique and should work if you can hold the constant angle like he does.
Jdavis882 sharpens serrations by hand
From what little I know about the business, you really do need a belt sander or paper wheel system for the problem blades you're going to encounter. Unless you can guarantee blades being in "good" condition, you need something that will take out chips, reshape tips, etc, faster than you can do it by hand. Even with the XXC it took me 45+ minutes to regrind a tip and take out 2 chips in a knife recently.
There's a thread over on knifeforums by a member named Navy, who's started his own sharpening business. Several actually. You might go read what he's written.
Best of luck to you!
Brian.
Railsplitter
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Sounds like you are planning to make house calls to sharpen your clients' knives. That might get old pretty quick.
I use paper wheels to sharpen my own knives and a few for others. Those and a belt sander are your best bet for efficiency in my opinion. You might be much better off taking the knives home and sharpening them. Seems like it would be more convenient for both you and the customer. Especially if they have more than one knife to sharpen. You could sharpen at your own convenience in your own home and you wouldn't be putting them out.
I use paper wheels to sharpen my own knives and a few for others. Those and a belt sander are your best bet for efficiency in my opinion. You might be much better off taking the knives home and sharpening them. Seems like it would be more convenient for both you and the customer. Especially if they have more than one knife to sharpen. You could sharpen at your own convenience in your own home and you wouldn't be putting them out.
What Rail said.
Adding my 2 cents:
Fastest manual IME is the WEPS. But repeating Railslplitter ... that will get old pretty quick.
1/2 hour on 1 knife and you won't make any $.
You'll quickly find that customer knives are not all created equal and there is no one magic method to fix all of them.
Also, when they hand you the broken 10" Chef Knife, nice to be able to say "yep, can fix that. It'll be 2 inches shorter", and get the dirty work done at home.
These days my manual work is mostly relegated to high end folders, fixed and Specialty stuff.
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Just another take on that idea. If OP is committed to hand sharpening on stones, then so be it. If he wants to make a living at it, he might need to rethink. I am not big on reinventing the wheel, so here's my take.
Margins seem to be pretty thin on that type of work, so it will come down to speed and accuracy. There is a guy that is at all out local gunshows (about 15 a year) that comes with a belt sander, a belt sander with a leather belt on it, and paper wheels. He sets up, and will sharpen any knife with a blade up to 4" for $5. A dollar an inch after that. With his setup he can sharpen anything you give him in just a couple of minutes, and I mean that literally. After sharpening, he will be glad to watch you shave hair off your arm, or try out the edge on a piece of copy paper.
Reshaping and reprofiling are by quote. Bring the knife by and leave it with him for a couple of hours if you want convex edge put on it as he does those between quickie sharpenings.
To my knowledge there is only one knife sharpening service actually here in town. The guy runs it out of an old mail truck, and he has about the same setup as above in his truck with a little generator inside. He shows up at farmer's markets, handles several restaurant accounts (pulls up out back and gets to work), and goes to barbecue cook offs, local fairs, etc. Basically, he gets a dollar an inch at the different venues, and doesn't make house calls as he found that folks wanted him to come to their house to sharpen one or two knives.
He doesn't take the client's knives anywhere unless it is a regrind from breakage as he doesn't want to be responsible for the knives. Apparently he had some problems in the past about how many knives he took back to his shop, or how much he actually ground off. With broken tips, he will regrind in front of owner so he can see how much was taken off the blade and why. He told me that if he reprofiles to grind out the broken tip folks think he took an inch off their knives, so he makes them stand and watch him do it. And.... he is FAST.
Robert
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Good points as always, Robert.:thumbup:
There is a guy here in town that sets up his paper wheels inside one of the local sporting goods stores. I think he chooses his own hours because I have only seen him there about half of the times I've been in there. I watched him a couple times and he is pretty quick too. (one of the advantages of paper wheels) He sets up at the end of one of the aisles right out on the floor. I don't know how much he charges.
I have considered setting up somewhere myself but I think I need to "hone" my skills a little better before I start sharpening for the general public. That and I'm not sure if I would enjoy sharpening as a side job.
There is a guy here in town that sets up his paper wheels inside one of the local sporting goods stores. I think he chooses his own hours because I have only seen him there about half of the times I've been in there. I watched him a couple times and he is pretty quick too. (one of the advantages of paper wheels) He sets up at the end of one of the aisles right out on the floor. I don't know how much he charges.
I have considered setting up somewhere myself but I think I need to "hone" my skills a little better before I start sharpening for the general public. That and I'm not sure if I would enjoy sharpening as a side job.