what is this thing? G SCHRADE???

[iubigred007]

hey all, my buddy is wanting me to sell this knife on eBay for him, but i have no idea what it is. so hopefully some of ya'll can help me out...

one side of tang says: G SCHRADE
KNIFE CO, INC.
SPORT, CT USA
other side says: PATS
11-9-27
10-19-44

the dice on the rear of the handle is a pull that releases the blade as it springs forward, like an automatic knife would.

here are some pics:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/iubigred007/For%20Sale/july42006-038Large.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/iubigred007/For%20Sale/july42006-045Large.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/iubigred007/For%20Sale/july42006-046Large.jpg

thanks for the help!

 

[Sword and Shield]

It's a ball-pull automatic, if I'm reading it right.

 

[waynorth]

Does the stamp actually say "B'PORT, CT USA" ? It should, as this was the common contraction of Bridgeport, Connecticut.

 

[glennbad]

The buyers on ebay will know what this is, aside from what was already said here. Buyers of automatics, as LT could tell you, will know what this is and bid accordingly. Automatics seem to be the only type of knife on ebay that never "slip through the cracks", ans usually go for a decent number.

Glenn

 

[rev_jch]

Looks like one of the old ball pull G. Schrade knives from the 1920's patent. George had many patents on switchblades and machines (used in knife making, such as a machine for inletting shields in handles he mostly marketed in europe).

Switchblades were his specialty.

 

[Eyegor]

And an auto to boot!! Several of my passions all lumped together. If you decide to post to Ebay please let me know, I'll be interested in watching the results and I rarely visit the site otherwise. If I didn't already have several other $$ commitments at the moment I would make you an offer. Let's see what the auction brings.

 

[iubigred007]

thanks all. it may say "B'Port" instead of SPORT. it is hard to tell, but i'm sure that is the case.

thanks for all the info

 

[textoothpk]

B'Port is what it says. Please check back with us on this knife, iubigred007, as our top gun switchblade guy has not checked in yet. He literally did write the book on these things, and he'll telll you more about the cool little knife than any of us can.

Phil

 

[NAFix]

Concur that B'PORT is what it originally said, but depending on its previous owner(s) fascination with the magic that happens when you pull the die, it could easily now say SPORT owing to wear! Besides our own author's book on the topic, I have Mark Erickson's "Antique American Switchblades." He says some interesting things about the pullballs, shows a dozen of them in color, including the one with the die pull, and even has the 1944 patent drawing. All of the pullballs measure 2-7/8" closed. Over the years there were four different different tang stamps, and in two of the three modifications, they got the first patent date wrong. It started out stamped, G. SHRADE in an arch over PAT 11-9-37 which is the correct date. The next two stamps carried the wrong first patent date of "11-9-27," which is the one iubigred has. Yours is the third generation stamp, BTW, since the G.SHRADE is in a straight line, not in an arch, as were the first two generations. The fourth generation had the correct early patent date, 11-9-37. (Interestingly, I've discovered another discrepancy. In the five places Erickson mentions the second patent date he states it as 10-10-44. Iubigred's is clearly stamped 10-19-44. I'll send Mark an e-mail and ask him to take a look at this post... he said he was still trying to get to the bottom of the mystery of the dates. This'll confuse it even more, unless he read it wrong!) Erickson notes that just because it has the wrong date, doesn't make it automatically more rare than those with the correct date... he says the production numbers (and survivors) are about the same. Also yours doesn't appear to have any advertising on it. He notes that more had advertising than not, so it is more rare. But Erickson says, however, that even though it is more rare, the advertising ones are more popular.... The George Shrade Knife Company was in business from 1929-1956. After George died in 1940, his son Geroge M. and grandson Theodore ran the company until they sold it to Boker in 1956. Theodore stayed on to run the company until 1958, when the American switchbalde world came to an end. Of course, this design is not very functional as a one-handed knife...but cute and I've always wanted one... are you interested in offers? Do you have any photos of it fully open? This is not the place to get into bidding... you know there's a place for that. But if you're interested, please send me an e-mail.
Thanx for sharing the pix,
Barry

 

[lt632ret]

Yes I remember Mark when he stayed he stayed at my house when I was writing my book. He was a quick learner and a nice person. This particular style knife was invented to replace the 2,7/8" double automatic. Which was the standard for this approximate size knife under Schrade cut and Schrade Walden. Which were originally also under G Schrade patents. G Schrade had sold his percentage of the original Schrade company prior to WWI when he went to Europe to hawk his inventions after being thrown out of Germany upon the outbreak of WWI he returned to the states and worked with and for the challange knife company which produced the flylock line of knives. When they went broke he received some of there machinery for money which he had been owed and opened his last company which was the G Schrade Knife company who carried the presto automatic line. The knives he produced had only minor variations from his original patents and his family took him to court. However since he was the inventor of both lines when asked what the differences were ( by the judge ) he pointed out enough subtle difference to win the case. G Schrade made several attempts to lessen costs which is why he also came out with the wire jack and several other styles of knives. I am attaching a few pics one is a JCN which was a full metal gentlemans version sold as an accessary with a mens jewelery set. These had 8 ball pulls the dice and of course the regular ball. LT PS I also included an original patent diagram in case you wanted to make your own.

 

[iubigred007]

wow

i don't even know where to start on this thing! so much info, so quick...

i guess i need to get it working first off. it does not open all the way with the spring, seems too tight. i'll put some white lightning on it and see what happens.

thanks all

 

[lt632ret]

Good lube I did an article on the stuff ( for its use in automatics ) however in this case use WD-40. If it attempts to work then it is probably just dirty however if you feel any thing broke or if it is not releasing properly then it is a real pain. This was an inexpensive knife made to be thrown away if the mech broke. Check the patent schem I posted. By the way the dice usually do the best then the 8 ball then the rest the JCN also does well . These were made for Remington by presto ( on contract) as well. They were the R-17. By the way these should fit the EBAY size guidelines. When these became outlawed ( obviously these dangerous artuifacts pose a danger to humanity. They came out with the cam knife which opened by pulling the rear of the knife which had a gear insted of a spring and once again humanity was saved.) Now we can all sleep tonight by the way the Rems often bring twice what the others bring simply because of the tang marking. Good luck with your knife and be careful you might get arrested.

 

[NAFix]

LT,
So what do you make of the 10-19-44 patent date stamped on iubigred's pullball?? I see in your book that for one of the knives pictured you, too, show that later patent date as 10-10-44. And looking closer at Mark's book, he has a photo of an original box and paper that came with the knife. It also shows 11-9-37 and 10-10-44 as the dates.... The mystery about iubigred's knife deepens.....
Later,
Barry

 

[lt632ret]

The patent diagram pic I submitted has a filed date of June 14 1944. It carries Oct 10, 1944. with a patent number of 2,360,165 . I am submitting some pics of Pat dates ect. which are examples of what you have mentioned. You will notice the Rem and JCN carry an 11-9-37 date these are also contract knives . Then I have two others one carries 11-9-37 and 10-10-44 and the other has 11-9-27 and 10-19-44. I believe these are most of what you cited which includes descrepencys and anomalitys.

Here is what can be deduced from these examples. The patent date on the copy of the patent ( pic submitted ) conclusively shows a 10-10-44 as the later date. Three knives show an original patent date of 11-9-37. This is a correct date for the earlier patent. You will note the two contract knives carry only the 11-9-37 date showing them as the earlier modelmade prior to 44 but after 37. The knife having the confirmed date of 10-10-44 and 11-9-37 is correctly stamped.

The knife having the dates of 11-9-27 and 10-19-44 has been incorrectly stamped this is really not a big thing nor was it that unusual. Mistakes in tang stamps as in any printing happen. Obviously quite a few came out this way.
Now to further prove the point in 1927 Schrade was still working with Challange ( ie flylock ) who never produced these. Also the date is exactly 10 years earlier suggesting a simple substitution of a 2 for a 3 rather than an exact 10 year coincidence on the patent award date. Also the handle material on these is plastic rather than cell which would have been the material of choice in 27 in 37 and 44, plastic especially thin small pieces of plastic ( easy production of a new material ) was the wave of the future. also if you look at the blade it is obviously a cut out, cheaper ( less expensive) version of a product than the 2,7/8" it replaced in the line which had been made by both Schrade and flylock. (These were not being made this way in 27,) certainly more in line with the search for inexpensive knives to substitute into the line ( as I have mentioned ). Also apparently quality control was less since the incorrect ones got by. Now if you look at the correct and incorrect versions of the later stamp. If the two had been a 3 and the nine had been a 0 it would have been correct. LT

This is not a great mystery however it is a piece of the minutia of this history.

 

[El Lobo]

Thanks for another informative post, LT. :thumbup: :thumbup:

Bill

 

[NAFix]

Yeah, LT, thanx for clearing all of that up.... I was aware that both of the wrong dates were off by just an adjacent key on the keyboard. I'm a technical writer-editor for the Navy now and was the base newspaper editor for 10 years... so I've made my share of typos, and found a few, too. [As a matter of fact I have to go in to the office today and double-check the final corrections on a big report.] But I digress.... the point is, it's interesting to find a typo in a knife stamp... and not just one, but two, on the same knife with apparently many production runs. When Mark Erickson talked about the earlier patent date being incorrectly stamped, but not the later date discrepancy, I thought we'd discovered something. And I knew if anyone had seen (and recognized) this double-wrong-date stamp, it'd be you. Now iubigred has the whole story; it'll be interesting to see how he gets all of this into an e-bay listing!!
Thanx, again for all you do here....
Barry

 

[OldKnife007]

Well, once again one of the old, old threads here answered a question about an old George Schrade JCN knife i just picked up. And the cool little auto (switchblade!) works perfectly.

 

[Leviwilde1983]

Concur that B'PORT is what it originally said, but depending on its previous owner(s) fascination with the magic that happens when you pull the die, it could easily now say SPORT owing to wear! Besides our own author's book on the topic, I have Mark Erickson's "Antique American Switchblades." He says some interesting things about the pullballs, shows a dozen of them in color, including the one with the die pull, and even has the 1944 patent drawing. All of the pullballs measure 2-7/8" closed. Over the years there were four different different tang stamps, and in two of the three modifications, they got the first patent date wrong. It started out stamped, G. SHRADE in an arch over PAT 11-9-37 which is the correct date. The next two stamps carried the wrong first patent date of "11-9-27," which is the one iubigred has. Yours is the third generation stamp, BTW, since the G.SHRADE is in a straight line, not in an arch, as were the first two generations. The fourth generation had the correct early patent date, 11-9-37. (Interestingly, I've discovered another discrepancy. In the five places Erickson mentions the second patent date he states it as 10-10-44. Iubigred's is clearly stamped 10-19-44. I'll send Mark an e-mail and ask him to take a look at this post... he said he was still trying to get to the bottom of the mystery of the dates. This'll confuse it even more, unless he read it wrong!) Erickson notes that just because it has the wrong date, doesn't make it automatically more rare than those with the correct date... he says the production numbers (and survivors) are about the same. Also yours doesn't appear to have any advertising on it. He notes that more had advertising than not, so it is more rare. But Erickson says, however, that even though it is more rare, the advertising ones are more popular.... The George Shrade Knife Company was in business from 1929-1956. After George died in 1940, his son Geroge M. and grandson Theodore ran the company until they sold it to Boker in 1956. Theodore stayed on to run the company until 1958, when the American switchbalde world came to an end. Of course, this design is not very functional as a one-handed knife...but cute and I've always wanted one... are you interested in offers? Do you have any photos of it fully open? This is not the place to get into bidding... you know there's a place for that. But if you're interested, please send me an e-mail.
Thanx for sharing the pix,
Barry

Still interested in a rare G schrade pull knife with patten # 11-9-27 10-19-44 red with green pull bead and no advertising?