Photos What is this ????

[Hugo Calder]

My son found this buried in our back garden, I was wondering if it is of any significance.

 

[Centermass]

Definitely not an expert, but it looks to be some iteration of a German scout’s (as in Boy Scouts) knife. The German national flag colors inset in the handle suggest post war, as war era versions (known as “HJ” for Hitlerjugend, or Hitler Youth) typically had swastikas or other Nazi emblems in there. Pretty common, generally not expensive. They are usually Solingen made and blades marked “Rostfrei” (Rust free, aka stainless). They usually came with a metal sheath with an attached leather or imitation leather frog. I had a similar one as a lad when I was into militaria. I wouldn’t say it is particularly valuable in terms of money, but definitely a neat find!

 

[BladeScout]

Its a West German Army/Bundeswehr BW Kampfmesser (fighting/utility) knife or rather most likely an aftermarket copy of it.
If memory serves, this was introduced in the late 60s and discontinued in service in late 80s/early 90s.
It is not a HJ knife (the HJ knives are quite different) and has nothing what so ever to do with the scouts (unless some scouts bought them privately).

 

[Centermass]

Thanks for the education, BladeScout! I knew it wasn’t terribly typical of the HJ knives without the hooked metal guard or metal pommel, and Bundeswehr definitely makes sense.

 

[BladeScout]

I was wondering if it is of any significance.

Its interesting finding a knife if nothing else.
Not significant in terms of neither historical nor monetary value. The original was never expensive to begin with though some do collect them. The BM 'bread knife' wasnt particularly popular with the troops, its ergonomics are not praised to say the least and materials used are not top shelf.
As mentioned, your and your sons knife is most likely a copy of the authorized BW knife. If memory serves, the original did not have the national flag on the scales where as some copies do. Lack of maker is another hint. Maybe check the knife for a makers mark/name.

 

[BladeScout]

Thanks for the education, BladeScout! I knew it wasn’t terribly typical of the HJ knives without the hooked metal guard or metal pommel, and Bundeswehr definitely makes sense.

Thx. You were right about it of course being post war due to the national flag. As you say, the HJ knife came with a metal scabbard and frog - as does the BW knife. The HJ knife has a hooked guard and metal pommel, correct.
I think you just got your knives mixed up, as the HJ knife morphed into a scouts knife post war. It then had a 'fleur de lis' inlay in the scales.
I doubt the German scouts officially would use the West German army/BW knife in question.

 

[Centermass]

The one I picked up as a kid (cough cough well over 30 years ago) had a fleur de lis on the shield, but the handle was entirely poorly molded black plastic, so I’m sure it was probably Chinese garbage in retrospect. I’m pretty sure I broke it throwing it at trees

 

[BladeScout]

From a source (in German) a quick and dirty translation:
How to recoqnize a BW copy?

Copy
-dummy screws in scale.
-synthetic lanyard tube
-synthetic guard (instead of metal on the original).

(I didnt bother with the rest since your son found it sans scabbard).


Woran erkennt man Kopien der BW Kampfmesser?
Da der “Brotzeitsäbel” auch zivil als Outdoor- und Fahrtenmesser populär war, kamen später zahlreiche Kopien auf den Markt.

Ein altes Bundeswehr Kampfmesser besitzt außer den Herstellerstempeln eine standardmäßige Verarbeitung. Achten Sie auf folgende Details:

Plagiat

+ 1 Niete an der Ledergürtelschlaufe
+ wegen Schraubenattrappen nicht zerlegbar
+ Fangriemenöse aus Kunststoff
+ Parierstück aus Plastik

Original

– 2 Nieten an der Ledergürtelschlaufe
– zwei Metallschrauben im Griff zwecks Zerlegung
– Fangriemenöse aus Metall
– Parierstück aus Metall




Eine recht bekannte Kopie existiert von der Solinger Messermarke C. Friedrich Ern. Hierbei ist der Griff samt Parierstück aus einem Stück Kunststoff gegossen. Die Klinge entspricht nicht den Abmessungen, sie ist kleiner und schmaler.

-survivalmesser.de

 

[BladeScout]

From the above mentioned source; a known copy (from C. Friedrich Ern) has a one piece synthetic handle and guard. The blade doesnt have the correct measurements, its smaller (short) and more skinny.

 

[BladeScout]

The one I picked up as a kid (cough cough well over 30 years ago) had a fleur de lis on the shield, but the handle was entirely poorly molded black plastic, so I’m sure it was probably Chinese garbage in retrospect. I’m pretty sure I broke it throwing it at trees

Due to the pinned construction, they were known for quickly developing a rattle. Throwing it at trees would no doubt have accelerated this.