What is Traditional?

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Apr 24, 2013
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Virtually every type of knife currently made except maybe flippers and spring assisted folders dates back a long way in some part of the world. Even spring assisted knives are functionally similar to switchblades which have a relatively long history. The Balisong/butterfly style knife just had it's 300th birthday per mention and pictures in a French book from 1710. The folding knife in some form dates back to Roman times and the fixed blade knife in innumerable forms intended for all purposes from hunting to combat dates back to the bronze age. Locking blade folders are nothing new either. Modern knife makers have just come up with various new blade locking mechanisms.

So why does the "traditional" category exist seeing as how technically there are very few knife designs that at least in some version are not traditional somewhere ;-)
 
Traditional materials... Traditional patterns... Traditional blade shapes...

Stick around. my friend! ;)
 

Rules of thumb:
  • If it has a pocket clip and a thumb stud or opening hole, it's not traditional.
  • Try going back about 60 years. If it wasn't available then, it likely is not a traditional design. That includes "modern locking mechanisms".
  • If it's a folder designed for "self defense", it likely isn't traditional. (Switchblades were carried by a good many folks who did not use them for self defense. It was only in the 1950's when they were perceived as being carried as weapons that they were outlawed.)

This forum has both a Title and a subtitle, which define the topic matters of this forum.

Forum: Traditional Folders and Fixed Blades
Discussion of classic Hunters, Trappers, Lockbacks, Slipjoints, Skinners and other classic designs

 
A true traditional in the most literal sense of the word would be a fixed blade of utility design. Small, large, in between, and in my studies of the folks that settled Texas (my home state) one or two knives of fixed variety were all the EARLY settlers had. Pretty traditional. The only variants we have in the Cowboy museum or the Texas Ranger museum or the Insitute of Texan Cultures are a few friction folders.

Read this forum and look at the pictures, and you can see that the definition here is a bit closer, one that seems to concentrate not back to Roman times folders, but to knives that became popular about 1850s or so (someone will correct that guess) and were made out of simple materials. Mostly, materials that were plentiful and reliable. So carbon steels, bone, wood, stag, celluloid, iron for bolsters, etc. are more accepted here.

Folders were folders for about a century, and while there were many patterns, there was little change in the actual design or mechanics of pocket knife. Blades, bolsters, liners, backsprings and scales all pinned together and you had a knife. Upscale knives were better fit, finished, and had nicer scale materials, but they were the same construction and same patterns for decades. Of course, there are exceptions to every rule as will be pointed out.

Traditionals changed to me when we started to see lockbacks in the 60s, and then LARGE folders. Too big to carry in your pocket, these were best carried in a belt sheath. Then came liner locks, screwed down pivots, screwed down scales, strange blade shapes, knives without bolsters, knives scaled with fiberglass (FRN), Micarta, Zytel, and on an on. Belt clips on handles arrived on the scene, super metals appeared for blades, and stainless steel finally grew up. Flippers, assisted openers, automatics, blades with holes in them to open the blade and thumbstuds became part of the landscape.

To my understanding, none of that works here. I personally think that is a good thing. The accepted model of the traditional here seems to be mostly folders that are of designs that harken back to the late 1800s to the 1960s, and are made in a similar fashion to those knives. They utilize the designs from that periods and most of the materials, too. Most of the knives from that time reflect the needs of tradesmen, workers of all sorts from specialized to generalized, and include designs for the casual user and gentleman.

As a few examples of accepted and not accepted: screwed together construction and ball bearings are a no go. Pinned together knives with bolsters and liners are great.

G10, Micarta, Titanium and Zytel are not traditional materials for scales, but wood, bone, celluloid, stag, etc. are so they are fine.

There are no flippers in traditional knives. Period. If the only infraction from a knife that fits all other requirements is that it is a liner lock, that is a mod prerogative to decide. Some pass, some don't. Lockbacks, again a mod judgement call, but it seems to be the only accepted models are the 40 - 50 year old Bucks, and those models only.

Stainless? Carbon? A topic too hot to touch. Both have a place in traditionals.

For me, I appreciate the craftsmanship of a well made traditional patterned knife. I think it takes a lot more skill to fit and finish the old patterns with the tools needed to do so than to take a pile of pieces and screw together a knife. Although I have a handful of those things, they are work knives and I have never really been attached to them. To me, they are what they are, a pile of assembled parts.

Ahhh.... but one can wax poetic about a fine traditional. Small enough to fit in a pocket, they can go places without notice. They become part of your daily kit, a reliable partner you rely on when you face the day. Instead of wearing down the G10 on a modern knife so that it looks ground down, a bone or stag handle smooth out nicely, wearing along with its owner. Bone and stag stain, turn colors on their own, and respond to how they are used and will turn out to be quite unique depending on the owner. A good patina on a carbon blade can take years to develop, but that blade has its own character, one it earned while in your hands. A stainless blade just seems to get scratched up and look ugly.

I look at my old traditionals and admire their wear and scars. I know they will go as long as I can. I look at a well worn modern work knife that I carry and I see worn fiberglass and scratched metal.

I know I am rambling on, but traditionals are just where it's at for me. I have no collector knives and all of my knives are used. And while I like my modern patterns, I love my traditionals.

Robert
 
Please Robert, feel free to ramble on. That was well put.:thumbup:

One easy way to describe a traditional pocket knife is, would your grandfather or even great grandfather instantly recognize it as something that was for sale in the hardware store when he was a kid?

Carl.
 
Please Robert, feel free to ramble on. That was well put.:thumbup:

One easy way to describe a traditional pocket knife is, would your grandfather or even great grandfather instantly recognize it as something that was for sale in the hardware store when he was a kid?

Carl.

Interestingly, while that works right now for many who are, er, "mature" in years, many of today's up-and-comers can (or will soon be able to) legitimately answer, "My grandfather always used a Spyderco, so that's what I want."

Yet, waiting 50-60 years (or more) won't render a Delica "Traditional" as understood as the focus of this subforum or among the larger knifenut community.

(A thread exploring this very notion, the possibility of currently-modern knives someday being considered Traditional ["traditional"...?]: Modern Becomes Traditional.)

~ P.
 
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I think OP is trolling. Not going to work in this forum though. Maybe he would get better responses in Whine and Cheese. Just sayin. Our community doesn't put up with too much arguing. Thread will get closed quick.
 
I think OP is trolling. Not going to work in this forum though. Maybe he would get better responses in Whine and Cheese. Just sayin. Our community doesn't put up with too much arguing. Thread will get closed quick.

We weren't ready to call it trolling. Believe me closing it was contemplated and may still happen. One thing it does do, is remind us all of how we folks in the Traditional forum define traditional knives.
 
Interestingly, while that works right now for many who are, er, "mature" in years, many of today's up-and-comers can (or will soon be able to) legitimately answer, "My grandfather always used a Spyderco, so that's what I want."

Yet, waiting 50-60 years (or more) won't render a Delica "Traditional" as understood as the focus of this subforum or among the larger knifenut community.

(A thread exploring this very notion, the possibility of currently-modern knives someday being considered Traditional ["traditional"...?]: Modern Becomes Traditional.)

~ P.


Hmmm, me thinks you may have something there!

Okay, how about traditional being the common pocket knives of pre WW2 era? That should be pretty traditional, with all those serpentine jacks, and cigar jacks, and...
:D

Carl.
 
A simple traditional vs non-traditional test that works for me: Would a "mall ninja" be inclined to own it?

Doesn't cover all the bases, but still a pretty useful test.
 
Looking at the OP's post history, it appears that he's a dedicated fan of balisongs who's maybe feeling left out.
 
Except balisongs are traditional, at least for some people. I've posted in the past that I never really understood the modern vs. slipjoints debate. I didn't know anyone who carried a slipjoint growing up. To my dad and uncles a pocketknife meant the balisong. The whole "what is traditional" question is context specific. What is traditional in one place is often entirely foreign in another.

Take slipjoints for example. Given that this website's membership is overwhelming composed of Americans the slipjoint is considered to be a traditional knife. They are not considered traditional worldwide though. To the Argentine a traditional knife means the criollo. For Finns it's the puukko. With the Sardinians it's the resolza, the Nepalese the khukuri, and Filipinos have the balisong. What is considered traditional varies from place to place.

- Christian
 
Except balisongs are traditional, at least for some people. I've posted in the past that I never really understood the modern vs. slipjoints debate. I didn't know anyone who carried a slipjoint growing up. To my dad and uncles a pocketknife meant the balisong. The whole "what is traditional" question is context specific. What is traditional in one place is often entirely foreign in another.

Take slipjoints for example. Given that this website's membership is overwhelming composed of Americans the slipjoint is considered to be a traditional knife. They are not considered traditional worldwide though. To the Argentine a traditional knife means the criollo. For Finns it's the puukko. With the Sardinians it's the resolza, the Nepalese the khukuri, and Filipinos have the balisong. What is considered traditional varies from place to place.

- Christian

So is "Traditional" a prejudiced or bigoted term? I guess since this site was started in the US originally for US consumption, the "theme" if you will has leaned more towards US centric types of cutlery?
 
Absolutely, Christian. When I re-read my post I realized that it sounded dismissive, which was not my intention.

Never took it as such James. Wanted to clarify is all. This place, because of its makeup and members' preferences has become a de facto slipjoint forum, with the occasional thread about lockbacks, friction folders, and fixed blades thrown in. My tastes are a bit more eclectic though, and I enjoy reading about everything from bowies to bolos.

- Christian
 
Another round of "What is Traditional" somewhat carried on in this thread going on just below this one.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...rgument-for-traditionals-over-a-modern-folder

The short and to the point answer is for the purpose of this "Traditional Folders and Fixed Blades" Forum You'll know it when you see it. Blase, I know but the answer that has been given by many in the past. Further, "kamagong" makes a good point when he raises geographical locations.
 
So is "Traditional" a prejudiced or bigoted term? I guess since this site was started in the US originally for US consumption, the "theme" if you will has leaned more towards US centric types of cutlery?

Not at all. Just pointing out that you need to take background into account. If a person wants to introduce other types of knives into this bunch, he'd best be served providing a bit of historical context, as Fausto has done with the resolza. Designs other than slipjoints are beyond the realm of experience for most of us here, and we are not always aware of what is considered a traditional knife in different locales.

- Christian
 
Except balisongs are traditional, at least for some people. I've posted in the past that I never really understood the modern vs. slipjoints debate. I didn't know anyone who carried a slipjoint growing up. To my dad and uncles a pocketknife meant the balisong. The whole "what is traditional" question is context specific. What is traditional in one place is often entirely foreign in another.

Take slipjoints for example. Given that this website's membership is overwhelming composed of Americans the slipjoint is considered to be a traditional knife. They are not considered traditional worldwide though. To the Argentine a traditional knife means the criollo. For Finns it's the puukko. With the Sardinians it's the resolza, the Nepalese the khukuri, and Filipinos have the balisong. What is considered traditional varies from place to place.

- Christian

Agreed.

For me, if it walks and talks ;) like a traditional knife, it is a traditional knife. I have owned many different one handed opening knives, and I have a few left. Try as they might, they will not hold the charm of an old slipjoint. 50 years from now, when my relatives are unloading my knives (hopefully I have a nice good long life ;), they will take a gander at the Great Eastern knives sitting there with some charm to their worn handles and patina'd blades etc, might even keep one or two I hope.
 
Not at all. Just pointing out that you need to take background into account. If a person wants to introduce other types of knives into this bunch, he'd best be served providing a bit of historical context, as Fausto has done with the resolza. Designs other than slipjoints are beyond the realm of experience for most of us here, and we are not always aware of what is considered a traditional knife in different locales.

- Christian

With that criteria then the OP is right. Balisong and other more exotic (to westerners) are very "traditional" and have a long and storied history. Maybe "Slipjoint" would have been a better name for this forum?
 
Never took it as such James. Wanted to clarify is all. This place, because of its makeup and members' preferences has become a de facto slipjoint forum, with the occasional thread about lockbacks, friction folders, and fixed blades thrown in. My tastes are a bit more eclectic though, and I enjoy reading about everything from bowies to bolos.

- Christian

Good point, Christian, and I agree. I like seeing lots of different manifestations of "traditional" knives, from all over the world, and learning about the cultures they came from in the process.
 
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