what is VG-10?

D

dalgis

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Apr 26, 2006
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what is this vg-10 steel and why is it better than 440 steel? explain someone please :>
 
dalgis said:
what is this vg-10 steel and why is it better than 440 steel? explain someone please :>
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Hi Dalgis,

That's a really BIG question. The knowledge and understanding of differences in steel alloys is one of the "deeper" subjects that keeps most of us learning.

The simple aswer to your question is that VG-10, to many, seems to hold an edge longer and get sharper than alloys in the 440 series, which includes 440A, 440B & 440C, all different.

The deeper answer is differences in chemicals and processes of making and processing steel are highly refined in the modern world. There are some modern alloys that seem to have some unusual abilities to perform well in different areas. Then one adds edge geometry, hardness & "magic tricks" and the plot thickens.

There are many that visit here that are quite knowledgable in these areas. How much do you want to know?

sal
 
I'm probably the wrong guy to answer this, since I'm no metallurgist :foot:
Unless you value things like better corrosion resistance, better abrasion resistance, superior edge holding and ease of sharpening, there really isn't any difference. :D

Okay, I'm through making fun of you now, and I apologize ;) . There are many different 440 series steels, some of which are excellent for knives with the correct heat treatment and edge geometry. For many people, those steels are fully up to their use, and VG-10 is probably a waste of money. For those of us who use our knives hard, the VG-10 is easier to get razor sharp, and it will stay that way a lot longer. Reading an article about VG-10 steel was actually what brought me back to Spyderco, as they were among the first to use it in prodution knives.

Edited to add: Sal, if I knew how to type, I would have got my post up first !
 
i'd really like to know about the process of making this kind of steel, what "ingredients" are used and for what purpose. that would be nice :> thank you for your replys btw ;>

right now i have a victorinox huntsman, but i want a real knife. im not saying that victorinox is bad, but i dont even use all those gadgets ;\, so im thinking of buying a spyderco endura knife and im curious what is this vg-10 steel ;>
 
VG-10 is an ingot steel. Made by Takefu. Developed for grafting knives in the hortoculture industry. As I understand it, these knives had to have soooooper sharp (fine) edges in order to make "grafting" cuts in plants without any rips or tears at the microscopic level (we're talking precision cuts here, like surgical). End users like it because it is easily maintained at a scary sharp level (if the original edge bevels were correct) and holds an edge like a champ. It is also quite corrosion resistant.

It is a proven workhorse. I'm not talking magazine articles either. It is a real world workhorse.

(edited for spelling)
 
VG-10 was the best production stainless steel made in Japan that we tested, seeking edge retention, corrosion resistance and toughness. We had already used AUS-6 (Aichi), AUS-8 (Aichi), AUS-10 (Aichi), Gingami 1 (Hitachi), and ATS-55 (Hitachi). We introduced VG-10 (Takefu) in the late 90's. We've recently added ZDP (Hitachi) as a regular production steel in our Seki made product.

The Endura4 and Delica4 are good examples of an excellent steel in a modern high performance, ergomonic, moderately priced folder.

The Japanee made (Hitachi) ZDP-189 is now being used in production by a few companies and it seems to have even more of the desired properties.

VG-10 is a highy refined ingot steel. ZDP-189 is a steel made with a powdered metal process. Kinda like hydrogen power vs hybrid technology in automobiles.

sal
 
Also, Spyderco (and other knife companies) changed over from ATS-34 to VG-10, leaving Hitachi in a bit of a bind. These knife manufacturers wouldn't have risked hard feelings on a simple gamble. VG-10 is a performer. Hitachi had to go back to the drawing board and develop something better. They did. ZDP-189. Competition spurs innovation. I would imagine Takefu is pouring steel mixtures this very moment in an effort to come up with a better mousetrap. End users (that's us) will get to play with the results someday. :)
 
Sal Glesser said:
VG-10 was the best production stainless steel made in Japan that we tested, seeking edge retention, corrosion resistance and toughness. We had already used AUS-6 (Aichi), AUS-8 (Aichi), AUS-10 (Aichi), Gingami 1 (Hitachi), and ATS-55 (Hitachi). We introduced VG-10 (Takefu) in the late 90's. We've recently added ZDP (Hitachi) as a regular production steel in our Seki made product.

The Endura4 and Delica4 are good examples of an excellent steel in a modern high performance, ergomonic, moderately priced folder.

The Japanee made (Hitachi) ZDP-189 is now being used in production by a few companies and it seems to have even more of the desired properties.

VG-10 is a highy refined ingot steel. ZDP-189 is a steel made with a powdered metal process. Kinda like hydrogen power vs hybrid technology in automobiles.

sal
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Sal,

ZDP-189 excels in edge retention. In your testing, how does it compare to VG-10 in corrosion resistance and toughness? Is there a trade off in these areas to get the superior edge retention?

Tom
 
Hi Tom,

We're setting up a "Q-fog" test (for corrosion resistance) including ZDP. Should know in a month or so.

sal
 
dalgis said:
right now i have a victorinox huntsman, but i want a real knife. im not saying that victorinox is bad, but i dont even use all those gadgets ;\, so im thinking of buying a spyderco...
Click to expand...

A lot of guys find carrying a Spydie for most cutting tasks and a SAK or multi-tool is a hard-to-beat combo that covers all the bases. Personally, I almost always have an Endura and Leatherman Micra on me.
 
From my somewhat limited and humble experience, I would say that VG-10 sharpens more easily and takes a slightly better edge than 440C, and VG-10 takes as good an edge as 420 or 440A but holds it longer. As always YMMV depending on who made the knives, what you are cutting, how you sharpen, etc.
 
Sal and Harry...nice job laying all that information out in a way even the "uninitiated" such as myself could follow along. I appreciate that !
I can look at steel formulas until the "cows come home" and listen to subjective reports on performance but somehow between the two of you I think I actually KNOW a bit about VG-10 now. Thanks guys.

-regards
 
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