What is with the obsession of patina on knives?

needler420

needler420

Joined
Apr 29, 2011
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As a X coin collector I know what a patina means. On a knife a patina to me means looks like garbage.:p

So when I watch videos of people trying to add a patina to their knife using mustard, hot vinegar or a potato or acidic juices I don't understand the point. They say it adds a protective layer to the steel. I say it makes the steel look like crap lol.

Even with a natural patina I prefer to take the blade to a sharpening stone and rub off the whole patina. I like the shine.

While we are on the subject of patina can anyone tell me any steels that are impervious to a patina?
 
Stainless steels are, by definition, resistant to developing a patina. High-carbon steels benefit from a patina that forms a protective layer to keep any extensive oxidation from forming that might lead to pitting.
 
It may look like 'garbage' in your eyes, and that's fine.

In it's intended use, a patina will help a knife from rusting or pitting, and that makes it very fuctional for high carbon steels.

I often wonder what the ratio is of people who force a patina for looks, and those that do it for it's specific benefit?
 
I live in west Texas... It's hot here. I sweat. No need to force a patina, it forms in my pocket. Kind of gross, but a fact nonetheless.

I like the look of a patina on a knife blade. Especially the uneven sort that forms naturally over time. Gives it character. Just a matter of taste. I like weathered leather, waxed canvas and classic cars with some paint missing too. New is fine and all, but it lacks exclusivity. My shiny new knife is exactly the same as everyone else's shiny new knife, but a year from now with a solid patina formed... It's mine.
 
I patina purely for the rust prevention benefits. Although, I do think a decent patina can make a knife look quite nice.

All of my outdoor knives are carbon steel. I take decent care of them, but have found that un-patina'd carbon steel knives develop surface rust much more easily where I live. So, I put a good patina on, then let it naturally get deeper/darker, and that has so far kept all of my knives from developing rust (just have to worry about the edge, but that's easily taken care of by sharpening/use anyway).

So yeah, its about rust. And while its about rust, people can make it decorative and functional by doing patterns. That's about it.

Carbon steels patina (1095, L6, 51200, 5160, etc), stainless (AUS8, 440c, S30v, ELMAX, etc) ones don't. Then there are some oddball ones that are kind of halfway, but lets not go into that.

The funny thing is that I sometimes see overly shiny knives, and sometimes think the reverse (it looks too shiny to be real, wonder what its made out of...). To each his own I guess.
 
I have never felt the need to force a patina. I try to avoid oxidation of any type and on the non stainless alloys I usually prefer. I don't have any trouble keeping them shiny and free of oxidation.

All knives need maintenance of some type and even stainless steels can corrode so if it's an alloy that needs a certain type of care I give it what it needs. The alloys I prefer aren't stainless. I grew up using non stainless blades so the idea of corrosion doesn't scare me any more than the idea of sharpening a knife.

Others wouldn't have a non stainless blade.

They are right and so am I.
 
Stop liking what I dislike!!!

In all seriousness I like a patina on my carbon steel blades because it means less matinence and it makes the knife unique.
 
A handful of my carbon steel knives were readin this over my shoulder. They are pretty pissed. I had to talk them down.

I love an old knife with a good honest patina.

On my new knives, I let the patina developed because it looks cool, but more importantly, it actually does protect the knife, and I feel, makes the taste transfer to food, particularly fruit a bit less.

When I'm old, and handing out knives to my grandkids, I hope they have as much patina as the ones I got from my own grandpa!
 
needler420 said:
Patina scares me for food prep.
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Do food prep with a carbon steel blade and it will get a patina.

Don't be scared. ;)

Seriously, cut some meat, onions and some citrus fruits with an O1 blade and take a look at the result.
 
As a Knife Maker I prefer stainless steels though I make about 3-6 Damascus Carbon steel knives a years. Its really a matter of personal taste and how much bother you are will ing to go through;)

I live by the ocean and when I started making knives almost 20 years ago I could watch the carbon steel I started with rust as i worked it.
It made a Stainless Steel devotee out of me real quick! Carbon steels has worked for up to about 4000 years give or take a few. Stainless has been here for about 100 and they get better all of the time.

Each to his own, Find the steels you like in the designs you like and go for it!:thumbup:
 
stabman said:
Do food prep with a carbon steel blade and it will get a patina.

Don't be scared. ;)

Seriously, cut some meat, onions and some citrus fruits with an O1 blade and take a look at the result.
Click to expand...

I have a super HC Japanese kitchen knife. When I cut onions, you can watch the patina form.
 
needler420 said:
Patina scares me for food prep.
Click to expand...

Why? Most of my kitchen knives are from some sort of carbon steel clad with iron which when completely clean (patina-less) interacts with (in particular acidic) food within seconds (first traces on the blade). If one allows natural patina to form, than this becomes more stable with time and has no ill-effects on the food. In particular the iron cladding is rather reactive and hard to keep completely cleen. Yes, Japanese Chefs rarely allow patina to form on a knife, but that usually means wiping the blade after every cut (in some cases).

For example - I have just received my Carter Funayuki from thinning service from Greg (wabocho.com) - and so the whole blade face is fresh without patina. Cutting onions caused patina to start to form immediately. Young patina is not very stable (chemically and mechanically) and thus may see slight browning of the cut on onions, but after few uses that disappears completely as the patina becomes more stable.

A few examples:

Knife from Andy Billipp here brand new before any use. Justs note - the damascus is made from 2 different martensitic carbon steels (that is it hardens with HT as well, contrary to most cladding steels used in knife making). The core steel is 52100:



And after several months of use:




And here Carter Fnayuki - white #1 clad with soft iron - freshly after thinning:




And after 2 dinner preparations (mostly vegetables):




On top of that I did force patina in the past on Spyderco Super blue knives (Caly 3.5 and Dragonfly) with vinegar - it prooved very resitant and looked quite cool with those deep gray tones:

The knives new:




And with vinegar patina and dyed handles after some use (the Caly went through some cardboard):




Do not fear the patina, embrace it :)
 
needler420 said:
As a X coin collector I know what a patina means. On a knife a patina to me means looks like garbage.:p

So when I watch videos of people trying to add a patina to their knife using mustard, hot vinegar or a potato or acidic juices I don't understand the point. They say it adds a protective layer to the steel. I say it makes the steel look like crap lol.

Even with a natural patina I prefer to take the blade to a sharpening stone and rub off the whole patina. I like the shine.

While we are on the subject of patina can anyone tell me any steels that are impervious to a patina?
Click to expand...

I agree with you on patina. Looks like crap and when I hear others talk that it makes a knife unique I usually smell cop-out. When I once stood as a bastion of defense of 1095,I put a lot of effort in keeping my knifes shiny. In high humidity I would maintain a coat of wd 40 on the blade. Usually spray it on at night and by morning it'd be pretty much dry as the stuff gets. Got tired of slightly oily knives so I'd polish the hell out of my knife on a regular basis. Took a lot of time. Victorinox taught me the joy of stainless.
As far as totally impervious stainless. I don't think you have to worry about that. I recently moved to a bit more humid climate and my Buck 110 was stored in it's sheath in a cardboard box. I finally unpacked it and the blade had some really weird kind of small chunks of rust on it. Hard to describe. It took some time to get the blade looking good again.
With stainless just check on them now and then and probably don't keep the blade enclosed. No steel is absolutely rust proof, but stainless needs so little effort to keep rust off they might as well be rust proof.That 110 of mine was the very first stainless blade I ever saw get rust.
 
A patina is typically used for protecting the blade from further rust forming. A patina is rust when you get down to the nitty gritty just grey rust rather than red which is the "bad" rust. Over time a rust will form on any carbon steel that has access to air with any humidity content. Some people just like to get fancy and do designs or other things with their patina's. Some people hate how they look and some people use carbon steel in wet or humid environments its all preference:rolleyes:.
 
bt93 said:
I agree with you on patina. Looks like crap and when I hear others talk that it makes a knife unique I usually smell cop-out. When I once stood as a bastion of defense of 1095,I put a lot of effort in keeping my knifes shiny. In high humidity I would maintain a coat of wd 40 on the blade. Usually spray it on at night and by morning it'd be pretty much dry as the stuff gets. Got tired of slightly oily knives so I'd polish the hell out of my knife on a regular basis. Took a lot of time. Victorinox taught me the joy of stainless.
As far as totally impervious stainless. I don't think you have to worry about that. I recently moved to a bit more humid climate and my Buck 110 was stored in it's sheath in a cardboard box. I finally unpacked it and the blade had some really weird kind of small chunks of rust on it. Hard to describe. It took some time to get the blade looking good again.
With stainless just check on them now and then and probably don't keep the blade enclosed. No steel is absolutely rust proof, but stainless needs so little effort to keep rust off they might as well be rust proof.That 110 of mine was the very first stainless blade I ever saw get rust.
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I recommend cleaning, or at the very least, thoroughly drying the knife prior to putting it away. WD40, in my opinion, shouldn't ever enter the equation.
 
In the world of kitchen knives the most commonly used is Japanese Camellia oil as it is also suitable to come in contanct with food - one small bottle will last you a lifetime. I would definitely avoid WD40 as it has also come cleaning agents (or so I recall) that might even react with the blade and will not be too healthy for the handle either. Otherwise a pure mineral oil (food grade that is suitable also for wooden cutting boards) should work too as it does not chemically deteriorates over time
 
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