What kind of bar stock for a beginner?

schmittie

schmittie

Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
2,974
I think I'm going to do it finally. I've handled a few blanks but I would really like to do my own knife from start to finish. What is an entry level metal that is user friendly? I was planning on going to buy a few Nicholson files but there is a bit of a debate about that on another thread. I already know I can't find usable steel locally (unless it is a file) so I'll have to order. Who has a good price on a few small bars? O-1? 1095? Help a guy out!! I'm going for a scandi knife for the first time. I've heard that is easiest to begin with after you make a jig......
 
Stay away from any of the new files, for that matter, stay away from all files for your first stock removal knife. A lot of files are case hardened and can really be a heartbreak after a lot of hard work. Unless you are confident in the file I'd avoid it for now...

I would say start with O1 for your first stock removal since it is pretty forgiving. I'm also very partial to O1, others will chime in soon with their thoughts, and they may have better ideas than I.

Jantz is reasonable on their O1 and they ship pretty fast. I'm not sure about knife making suppliers in your area, but a lot of folks on here use Jantz...

Whatever you decide, you do need to know this, you are about to become an addict! This stuff just gets under your skin... :eek:

Charlie
 
I would go with 1084. it is easy to get, easy to work, and generally will make a solid knife if treated correctly.
 
You haven't said what kind of equipment you have to work with, but my advice is to forget a jig, regardless of the steel you have. Most jigs are designed as a cheater's short-cut to perfection. Only problem is, they don't work for the most part.

Mark the center-line of your blade (top and bottom) and grind away toward center. After you grind two or three hundred blades, you will get the hang of it.

As far as steel......... Do your homework. You can buy quality steel on-line almost anywhere. How are you gonna heat treat whatever steel you decide on? It doesn't matter what "high-carbon" steel you work with, if the edge geometry is not right and the heat treat is not spot-on, you basically have a dull screw-driver.

O-1 is a good beginner steel and so is 1084, however, it all boils down to what I mentioned above. As far as files go, I can make a knife out of a good quality file that would last a lifetime and probably cut the world in half, but again, read the above paragraph. Don't mean to sound like a nay-sayer, but in order to turn out a quality product, you really have study...study......and do some more study.

Now that I have rained on your parade, if I can ever help, just let me know.

Robert
 
I used 0-1 for my first knife and i agree with it being great. Since then im in love with 1095, L6 and 52100. Whatever you use, get it from Aldo the NJsteelbaron.com He stands behind the quality of every inch of his material and will take care of you. Plus hes a bladesmith supplying smiths exclusively.
 
If you're gonna try and heat treat it yourself then you cant beat 1084. If you're gonna send them out for heat treat then it really doesn't matter. But do yourself a favor and spend the extra money on stock that has been annealed and has had the mill scale ground off. Most tool steels such as O-1, A-2, & D-2 come this way. Carbon steel may be listed as CRA or HR, CRA is cold rolled annealed which is what you want. HR is hot rolled, which usually means it is not annealed has mill scale. And you should heed Robert's advice and research these things for yourself. 99% of your questions have been asked and answered here before. Pay at least the minimum fee here which will allow you to use the search tool and almost anything you want to know will be at your fingertips. But by all means start somewhere, make mistakes and learn from them. Good luck and best regards.


Darrin
 
darrin sanders said:
If you're gonna try and heat treat it yourself then you cant beat 1084.

If you're gonna send them out for heat treat then it really doesn't matter.

But do yourself a favor and spend the extra money on stock that has been annealed and has had the mill scale ground off.
Most tool steels such as O-1, A-2, & D-2 come this way.

Pay at least the minimum fee here which will allow you to use the search tool and almost anything you want to know will be at your fingertips.



Darrin
Click to expand...

I agree with most of the above.

The stock listed a PG is precision ground and starts clean, flat, annealed.

Searching is now enabled for ALL users, even unpaid ones.

By all means, buy files, but use them to file down your blank.

This has some info that may help you
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/846729-Bowie-knife?p=9586897#post9586897
 
Schmittie,

If you give us a call I can go over the heat treating for the 1084. It's pretty straight forward.(As long as you have a kitchen stove!)

If you live near Jersey, come on over and I'll show you.
 
Robert Dark said:
You haven't said what kind of equipment you have to work with, but my advice is to forget a jig, regardless of the steel you have. Most jigs are designed as a cheater's short-cut to perfection. Only problem is, they don't work for the most part.

Mark the center-line of your blade (top and bottom) and grind away toward center. After you grind two or three hundred blades, you will get the hang of it.

As far as steel......... Do your homework. You can buy quality steel on-line almost anywhere. How are you gonna heat treat whatever steel you decide on? It doesn't matter what "high-carbon" steel you work with, if the edge geometry is not right and the heat treat is not spot-on, you basically have a dull screw-driver.

O-1 is a good beginner steel and so is 1084, however, it all boils down to what I mentioned above. As far as files go, I can make a knife out of a good quality file that would last a lifetime and probably cut the world in half, but again, read the above paragraph. Don't mean to sound like a nay-sayer, but in order to turn out a quality product, you really have study...study......and do some more study.

Now that I have rained on your parade, if I can ever help, just let me know.

Robert
Click to expand...

Holy cow Robert!! I have to admit, you came across a little abrasive there. I understand that often here on BF there are those children who just saw Rambo for the first time and realized that their dad has some tools out in the garage so the next obvious step is to go outside and make a knife!!! I've seen those posts too. If that is how I came across, I apologize. You are correct, I should have listed what tools I have. Currently, I do not have a shop geared towards metal work and knife making. That is why I have only put handles on a few blanks. I have typical hand tools: hacksaws, files, 4 1/2" grinder, drill, bandsaw, table saw and assorted sandpaper to start off with. I'm no stranger to construction. I've been a union carpenter for the past decade and I specialize in finishing interiors, specifically flooring. My trade is based around patience, precision and attention to detail. I've toyed with the idea of making a knife for a while, but just haven't started yet. It is just something I am interested in and I would like to learn a lot more about it. I've spent hours reading posts here in the makers section. From what I have seen, questions are welcome. I plan on taking plenty of pictures of the process and I look forward to the input that can be had here. I realize I have the option of trying to HT the blank myself. A few years ago I read this on how to make a knife out of a file and I thought it was detailed and interesting - http://www.woodsmonkey.com/index.ph...ke-a-knife&catid=41:how-to-articles&Itemid=63
I also realize that I have the option of sending a blank out for HT to a professional. It sounds like either O-1 or 1084 is a good place to start. Since the HT process described in the link I mentioned is something I could do at home myself, do you think it would be a bad idea for either steel? Please let me know what you think.
As to using a jig, that was something I have frequently found suggested for a scandi grind. I've read popular makers here say that a scandi grind is an easy grind to accomplish, especially if one had a jig for the proper degree. Since it sounds like something to try for the first time, that is what I would like to do.

For what it is worth, here are pictures of the last two handles I made. They are far from perfect, but each time I learn something new and I enjoy every minute of it.

100_0418.jpg

100_0419.jpg

100_0420.jpg
 
1084, if you only have a forge or torch to heat treat. O1, if you have an oven and can soak your blades for the proper amount of time at temp.
 
My above post may have seemed a little short and perhaps a little gruff sounding. If so, I apologize for I don't have a mean bone in my old body.

The information posted on that woodsmonkey link is not bad, but it leaves out a few things.

Give Aldo a call. He can fix you up with either 1084 or O-1. He is also a dang good guy.

I was dead serious when I said, "If I can ever help, just let me know". Shoot me an email and I will (try to) answer any questions you may have. If you have trouble finding steel, I will even send you a piece.

Robert
 
Wow, thanks for the offer Rob! I'll keep you posted on my progress. This is project I hope to start soon. Maybe I'll order both 1084 and O-1.
 
I have a torch and was considering making a charcoal forge. When you guys refer to an oven, do you man a HT oven? And soaking is refering to how long it's in the HT oven, right? Or am I way off here?
 
schmittie said:
I have a torch and was considering making a charcoal forge. When you guys refer to an oven, do you man a HT oven? And soaking is refering to how long it's in the HT oven, right? Or am I way off here?
Click to expand...

Yes, soaking is how long you leave it in the oven at the proper temp. With your torch/forge, I would definitely go with 1084.
 
I would say go with 1084, and buy as much as your budget allows and the approximate thickness that you want you finished knife to be if you are going to do stock removal. You buy as much as you can because, 1, you are going to get hooked, 2, because if you do screw something up you have the stock sitting there ready to go. It also gives you some to experiment with and learn to HT yourself. I personally send anything I plan on selling or giving away out for professional HT, since I am still learning how and trying to grasp the different aspects of HT.

I made my first knife from 13/64" 5160, it was a decent knife but it was a lot of filing to bring it down to shape and just a bit thick for the style of knife I made. I should have really done it in 3/16, or 1/8, but you learn as you go sometimes.

Read the stickies, then re read them. If you have questions about what you are reading, use the search function it was probably already asked. If you don't find what you are looking for, ask and reference the sticky so people know you read them. I know it says the stickies are for noobs but I think there are little tidbits there for everyone, I go through them a few times every couple of months and pull more information out each time.

Best of luck and may your first knife be a winner:thumbup:

George
 
Definitely 1084 with a basic backyard forge to HT with. You won't get the most out of O1 with that set-up, you'd be paying extra for no benefit. Go for PG whenever possible, it's worth it in the time you save.
George is right about using thin stock for the first couple knives.

I'd like to point out that although we all recommend 1084 as an inexpensive, "beginner" steel, don't under-rate it. It's excellent steel that performs very well in big choppers and thin slicers alike. It takes a sweet fine edge and keeps it longer than you might think. Its only major drawback is it has basically zero corrosion resistance. But honestly if 1084 was the only steel on the planet, we'd get by just fine :) (and this is coming from a guy who really likes "super steels" like CPM-154 and 3V)
 
I have worked with 3 steels and one piece pattern welded so far. As much as I like O1, 1084 is so easy to play with and the price encourages experimentation.
 
So I see Aldo is to blame for the guys asking me if they can heat-treat my blade blanks in their kitchen oven!!!!! :eek: :mad: :foot: :D

Aldo's 1084 will work beautifully for a beginner or a seasoned maker IMHO. You can handle it with simple equipment... but if you have a controlled temp source and quality quench oils.... you can make an outstanding blade from it. :)
 
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